amazon's internal build tool experiences this same phenomena. engineers are hired based on their leetcode ability; which means the average engineer has gaps in their infrastructure and config tool knowledge/skillset. until the industrys hiring practices shift, this trend will continue.
Be Aware of the Makefile Effect
11–20 of 347 posts
Re: Be Aware of the Makefile Effect
#12I think LaTeX is the poster child of this. Nobody writes a LaTeX preamble from scratch, you always copy your previous document and tweak it.
Re: Be Aware of the Makefile Effect
#13Old IBM mainframe scripting in JCL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_Control_Language (so "OS JCL" now, I suppose) used to have a terrible reputation for this, but I've never actually touched the stuff myself.
Re: Be Aware of the Makefile Effect
#14or ahem... CMake
Re: Be Aware of the Makefile Effect
#15I think Makefile is maybe the wrong analogy - the problem with most people and makefiles is they write so few of them, the general idea of what make does is at hand, but the muscle memory of how to do it from scratch is not.
But, point taken - I've seen so much code copy-pasta'd from the web, there will be like a bunch of dead stuff in it that's actually not used. A good practice here is to keep deleting stuff until you break it, then put whatever that was back... And delete as much as possible - certainly everything you're not using at the moment.
Re: Be Aware of the Makefile Effect
#16I have observed the Makefile effect many times for LaTeX documents. Most researchers I worked with had a LaTeX file full of macros that they have been carrying from project to project for years. These were often inherited from more senior researchers, and were hammered into heavily-modified forks of article templates used in their field or thesis templates used at their institution.
This is a great example of an instance of this "Makefile effect" with a possible solution: use Markdown and Pandoc where possible. This won't work in every situation, but sometimes one can compose a basic Beamer presentation or LaTeX paper quickly using largely simple TeX and the same Markdown syntax you already know from GitHub and Reddit.
Re: Be Aware of the Makefile Effect
#17At my work I've noticed another contributing factor: tools/systems that devs need to interact with at some point, but otherwise provide little perceived value to learn day-to-day. Example is build system and CI configuration. We absolutely need these but devs don't think they should be expected to deal with them day to day. CI is perceived as a system that should be "set and forget", like yeah we need it but really I…
The office coffee machine is not „set and forget”, but you wouldn’t expect the entire responsibility for it’s maintenance to be evenly distributed between all people that use it. Similarly, CI needs ownership and having it fall on the last developer that attempted to use it is not an efficient way of working.
Re: Be Aware of the Makefile Effect
#18If I had a nickel for every time I have seen a Makefile straight up copied from other projects and modified to "work" while leaving completely unrelated unnecessary build steps and targets in place. It's a major pet peeve of mine.
How do you know what is and isn't related if nothing is documented?
Trial and error?
Well have fun with that :p
Re: Be Aware of the Makefile Effect
#19> the tool (or system) is too complicated (or annoying) to use from scratch.
Or boring: some systems require boilerplate with no added value. It's normal to copy & paste from previous works.
Makefiles are a good example. Every makefile author must write their own functionally identical "clean" target. Shouldn't there be an implicit default?
C is not immune, either. How many bits of interesting information do you spot in the following excerpt?
#include
int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
printf("Hello\n");
return 0;
}
Re: Be Aware of the Makefile Effect
#20At my work I've noticed another contributing factor: tools/systems that devs need to interact with at some point, but otherwise provide little perceived value to learn day-to-day. Example is build system and CI configuration. We absolutely need these but devs don't think they should be expected to deal with them day to day. CI is perceived as a system that should be "set and forget", like yeah we need it but really I…
For me the big problems with CI setups tend to be:
- They're often slow
- They're often proprietary
- They're often dealing with secrets which limits who can work on them
- You generally can't run them locally
So the feedback cycle for working on them is incredibly long. And working on them is therefore a massive pain.