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Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

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Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#351

Post by mmooss »

vasco wrote: post #192
mmooss wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming others share your perspective and understanding. > The transition to using the word "homeless" has resulted in transforming something we can't easily measure -- "drug addicted or mentally ill people being a public menace" -- into something that we can measure -- "people without a good living arrangement". > the former is the actual problem that we care about The word homeless is pretty old, not someth…

> I spend a lot of time in cities and know others who do too. None feel menaced by people who are unhoused - why would that be menacing? - or high. High people generally don't know you are there, and are easily avoided. I've had zero problems; I don't know of anyone else who has This is completely detached from reality. I find it hard to believe you are being truthful unless you're doing some sort of gotcha where you…

> This is completely detached from reality.

Well if you say so, but it's reality. Have you lived in a city? I think you would know.

> https://nypost.com/...

The post pushes right-wing propaganda; it's a Rupert Murdoch publication, the same as Fox News. Ignore it.

Manhatten is so safe it's dull. It's lost its edge, its variety, its lifeblood which is the dynamic people. Really, I'm not kidding you. Look up the crime stats. Or just go visit - if more people would stop believing the right-wing nonsense and just see things for themselves, they'd be much happier (and how about holding the the NY Post, etc. accountable?).

> Like you honestly never seen an aggressive person who is high?

No, or if they are aggressive, they are aggressive to the empty air around them - I don't engage in conversation. But people high on opiods, which is most common by far, are quiescent. Some are basically asleep standing up, drooling in place. Very scary!

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#352

Post by mmooss »

simoncion wrote: post #297
vasco wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I spend a lot of time in cities and know others who do too. None feel menaced by people who are unhoused - why would that be menacing? - or high. High people generally don't know you are there, and are easily avoided. I've had zero problems; I don't know of anyone else who has This is completely detached from reality. I find it hard to believe you are being truthful unless you're doing some sort of gotcha where you…

> This is completely detached from reality. I find it hard to believe you are being truthful unless you're doing some sort of gotcha where you carry a gun or are some sort of jiu-jitsu master. As someone who has lived in San Francisco, CA for the past long-ass while, I agree with the paragraph that you're objecting to. I own no firearms, and can hardly throw a pillow, let alone a person. Maybe try, like, talking to m…

> my assailants were groups of folks who looked to be doing well for themselves

Bitcoin bros!

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#353

Post by mmooss »

fragmede wrote: post #253
vasco wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I spend a lot of time in cities and know others who do too. None feel menaced by people who are unhoused - why would that be menacing? - or high. High people generally don't know you are there, and are easily avoided. I've had zero problems; I don't know of anyone else who has This is completely detached from reality. I find it hard to believe you are being truthful unless you're doing some sort of gotcha where you…

> This is completely detached from reality. what's completely detached from reality is that the problem is so bad in (US) cities like NYC that it seems inconceivable that it isn't a universal truth that cities just have an indigent population that regularly threatens and sometimes follows through on threats of violence to passersby. How did we let the problem get this bad‽

> like NYC

You don't know how ridiculous that is. Stop watching propaganda and just visit NYC. I'm tempted to buy you a ticket. Or just ask someone who lives there.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#354

Post by vasco »

mmooss wrote: post #351
vasco wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I spend a lot of time in cities and know others who do too. None feel menaced by people who are unhoused - why would that be menacing? - or high. High people generally don't know you are there, and are easily avoided. I've had zero problems; I don't know of anyone else who has This is completely detached from reality. I find it hard to believe you are being truthful unless you're doing some sort of gotcha where you…

> This is completely detached from reality. Well if you say so, but it's reality. Have you lived in a city? I think you would know. > https://nypost.com/ ... The post pushes right-wing propaganda; it's a Rupert Murdoch publication, the same as Fox News. Ignore it. Manhatten is so safe it's dull. It's lost its edge, its variety, its lifeblood which is the dynamic people. Really, I'm not kidding you. Look up the crime…

Lived in cities all my life, 3 capitals, 2 non capitals, 3 countries. And gave you a personal example of my current local homeless guy, thanks for discounting my lived experience as one says.

For your argument to be valid, homeless people and drug addicts would need to be some special breed of human that is much more peaceful than everyone else. I don't demonize them but I also don't think they are angels. And they certainly are more desperate. Only a lack of understanding of human nature could tell you that people aren't afraid. Remember your argument isn't even that they are more dangerous. Your argument is that people don't ever even feel afraid of them, that is ridiculous.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#355

Post by mmooss »

amiga386 wrote: post #181
mmooss wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming others share your perspective and understanding. > The transition to using the word "homeless" has resulted in transforming something we can't easily measure -- "drug addicted or mentally ill people being a public menace" -- into something that we can measure -- "people without a good living arrangement". > the former is the actual problem that we care about The word homeless is pretty old, not someth…

> I spend a lot of time in cities and know others who do too. None feel menaced by people who are unhoused - why would that be menacing? - or high. High people generally don't know you are there, and are easily avoided. I've had zero problems; I don't know of anyone else who has. "Nothing ever happens" says person nothing happened to. Meanwhile, these are just some examples that made the news: * https://www.bbc.co.uk…

I think you are taking 'nothing' (if I used that word) too literally. Of course crimes happen. People win the lottery too. That doesn't make it a trend or a crisis. All those news stories add up to five individual crimes spread onto two continents.

> you can be molested or assaulted by drunk and beligerent homed people. And, more importantly, homeless people are much more at risk

I don't know enough to say "much" more, but I think those are good points. There's nothing special about being homeless, in terms of crime, except you are much more exposed to it.

> on both visits, lone women walking down the street in broad daylight were chased after and opportunisticly molested by drunk vagrants hanging around on Robson Street. Broad daylight.

How do I spend so much time in cities and never see anything like that? I'm sure some of these stories people tell are true, but wow.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#356

Post by mmooss »

vasco wrote: post #354
mmooss wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is completely detached from reality. Well if you say so, but it's reality. Have you lived in a city? I think you would know. > https://nypost.com/ ... The post pushes right-wing propaganda; it's a Rupert Murdoch publication, the same as Fox News. Ignore it. Manhatten is so safe it's dull. It's lost its edge, its variety, its lifeblood which is the dynamic people. Really, I'm not kidding you. Look up the crime…

Lived in cities all my life, 3 capitals, 2 non capitals, 3 countries. And gave you a personal example of my current local homeless guy, thanks for discounting my lived experience as one says. For your argument to be valid, homeless people and drug addicts would need to be some special breed of human that is much more peaceful than everyone else. I don't demonize them but I also don't think they are angels. And they c…

[flagged]

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#357

Post by sedatk »

tlogan wrote: post #318

I wanted to point out that the approach adopted by Finland may not be suitable for the United States. Finland has a population of only 5.6 million—less than two-thirds of the Bay Area—so their solutions, unfortunately, may not scale effectively in a larger, more complex environment. The other - even more important issue with all these approaches, however, lies in treating all homeless individuals as a single category…

> may not scale effectively in a larger, more complex environment

It's definitely more likely to scale than any other solution that has never been implemented.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#358

Post by Qwertious »

mrkstu wrote: post #221
Qwertious wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and bringing too many people into the country via immigration. In a functioning economy, more immigration will just result in more housing being built , as long as the immigrants are working. Especially since the cost of housing construction is largely the cost of labor. Immigration is a distraction from the core inability to build more housing.

"In a functioning economy" is doing a lot of work here. Here in reality the parent comment is 100% correct.

My point is that immigration is a distraction from the nonfunctioning economy.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#359

Post by pinkmuffinere »

pyuser583 wrote: post #159
pinkmuffinere wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a fun fact that -40 c == -40 f, but if you leave off the units people who aren’t ‘in the know’ would be confused. Also they might (adversarially) wonder if the units are in a lesser known scale like rømer

I use nerdy in-jokes a bit too much.

Sorry if I took your original comment too seriously — I do legitimately think it’s a fun fact!

As penance, here’s a bonus fun fact: wtf is 0F???? It’s the temperature saturated brine freezes at! (It’s very close but not exact, because Mr Fahrenheit wasn’t perfect)

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#360

Post by MichaelZuo »

wpm wrote: post #342
MichaelZuo wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part of what government? With what legal basis? Things aren’t magically legal and viable in the real world just because an HN user imagines it.

Most liberal democracies have provision within their founding documents and case law to allow for central governments at all levels to provide for the general welfare. You are asking highly vague implementation details about a small hypothetical. It comes off as incredibly rude and like you're fishing for some answer you already mentally dunked on.

Why does your opinion matter more than anyone else’s opinion here?

Even if you believe my previous questions were too opinionated, responding with even more can only be detrimental, and it is not going to lead anywhere productive.

For example, try making a substantive argument as to how a credible enforcement system would come into existence. Otherwise the default assumption is that it will not turn out any better than already existing government systems.

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