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Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

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Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#111

Post by m2024 »

dyauspitr wrote: post #70
nostromo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how every westerner visits Japan and comes home thinking we can "solve crime" or "solve homelessness" or "have clean subway stations." Japan's culture is why those things are the way they are. It's not due to funding. It's because people raise their children differently than we do in the west. The family's obligations are also greater. And, yes, there are homeless people in Japan. But they typically are in…

It’s definitely cultural. I’ve been to every major city in the US and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a homeless Indian. Some groups have broken familial cultures that does not churn out good citizens. Did the US in the past play a major role in breaking down those groups and surrounding them with abject poverty that makes it hard to escape from? Absolutely.

That's because it's very affluent Indians who have been granted citizenship historically.

Homelessness goes down in places where housing is cheap and also in places where the government intervenes sensibly.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#112

Post by Scoundreller »

TinyBig wrote: post #79
Scoundreller wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And don’t “fix” the problem at the expense of the paycheque-to-paycheque lower-working class. Otherwise it’s zero sum and you create a homeless for every homeless you remove and disincentivize work.

How would it be possible to fix the problem at the expense of the lower working class?

> How would it be possible to fix the problem at the expense of the lower working class?

Not sure if you intended to phrase your question as you did, but if you give cash to the unhoused to rent housing, that takes supply from the bottom of the rental market if you don’t build any more.

Builders tend to build for those that can afford to pay and don’t target the bottom of the market.

Most stock of low-cost housing is due to building neglect or depopulation rather than being purpose-built, in a free market anyway.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#113

Post by annzabelle »

andrewla wrote: post #92

Without digging too deep into the nature of the statistics they use, I'm a little skeptical of this. The transition to using the word "homeless" has resulted in transforming something we can't easily measure -- "drug addicted or mentally ill people being a public menace" -- into something that we can measure -- "people without a good living arrangement". Sure, the latter is important in a lot of ways too. And there h…

My understanding is that Northern Europe has a much more robust system of using Long Acting Injectable Antipsychotics (under court order if nessecary) and various group home options or Assertive Community Treatment teams that have nurses visit patients daily. They are also quicker to use lithium and clozapine when indicated. They also do much longer hospital stays when needed than our revolving door policies here. Also they don't have meth and fentanyl epidemics yet.

We know that the longer psychosis goes untreated/the more times someone goes off the meds, the harder it is to treat, and that what happens in the first few years of someone developing a psychotic disorder makes a huge difference in long term outcomes.

An American might develop psychosis in their mid 20s, end up committed for a few weeks and placed on antipsychotic pills until they're no longer floridly psychotic, and then go home, not follow up with doctors/refill meds, and end up on a cycle of this with more and more brittle symptoms until they're homeless and have no real chance of recovery.

The same person in Northern Europe would likely be hospitalized for longer initially, started on an injectable that only needs to be given once a month, and they leave the hospital with fewer residual symptoms. They're then followed by an ACT team with a nurse visiting to check on them and make sure they're eating and keeping housing, and ensuring that shot goes in their arm every month. They don't necessarily fully recover, but a lot of them end up being able to do some kind of schooling/employment/volunteering and they are either stable enough to keep housing without being evicted for disruption, or are shuffled into staffed group homes.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#114

Post by [deleted] »

andrewla wrote: post #92

Without digging too deep into the nature of the statistics they use, I'm a little skeptical of this. The transition to using the word "homeless" has resulted in transforming something we can't easily measure -- "drug addicted or mentally ill people being a public menace" -- into something that we can measure -- "people without a good living arrangement". Sure, the latter is important in a lot of ways too. And there h…

[deleted]

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#115

Post by yard2010 »

pyuser583 wrote: post #84
127 wrote: post #82

Also -40C winters might have something to do with it.

If you’re going to use -40, why include the “C”?

I for one have no idea how much is -40f, is it colder or hotter than -40c?

I do remember -32 or something is the same?

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#117

Post by justin66 »

philip1209 wrote: post #4

Worth pointing out that Finland is one of the most ethnically homogeneous societies in Europe - only ~10% of the population is of foreign origin and background [1]. So, like Japan, it's easier to have a high-trust society if you eschew immigration. Edit: Just to be clear, I'm very pro-immigration. I just think that studying rich homogeneous societies doesn't result in many useful takeaways for countries like the USA.…

> Worth pointing out that Finland is one of the most ethnically homogeneous societies in Europe - only ~10% of the population is of foreign origin and background

Meh. They've got two different official languages. It's not as ethnically uniform as a lot of other European countries.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#118

Post by wklm »

cousin_it wrote: post #106

I think governments should offer free housing to everyone who asks, in their city of choice. "But why should taxpayers pay for that? It's expensive!" Yes, it would be very expensive. But you know what's even more expensive? The sum of everybody's lowered wages, bad bosses, fear for the future, fear of having kids and so on, due to the threat of homelessness. Yes, building housing is expensive, but the removal of fear…

Quite an interesting perspective, sadly it’ll likely never get implemented in any capitalistic economy

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#119

Post by cousin_it »

skirge wrote: post #110
cousin_it wrote: post #106

I think governments should offer free housing to everyone who asks, in their city of choice. "But why should taxpayers pay for that? It's expensive!" Yes, it would be very expensive. But you know what's even more expensive? The sum of everybody's lowered wages, bad bosses, fear for the future, fear of having kids and so on, due to the threat of homelessness. Yes, building housing is expensive, but the removal of fear…

Everyone wants to live in the centre of Helsinki, because why not?

I'm not saying give everyone the nicest center flat. Let's say an acceptable commute distance away, up to 30min by public transport.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#120

Post by yard2010 »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #96
octopusRex wrote: post #8

The US chooses not to end homelessness. We have the highest GDP in the world. We could end it if we wanted to. I was in Japan recently. A choice was made there as well.

How do you end homelessness, when some percent of homeless people will, if you give them a place to stay, smoke meth all day and make their apartment and nearby apartments health hazards? Many drug addicts don't want to be addicted, and would try to go through treatment if provided. But some are inveterate, and don't want to quit. What do you do with them?

Not all homeless people are dangerous drug addicts.
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