How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us? • Hacker News Board

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#151

Post by ralfn » Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 1:25 PM UTC

latch wrote: post #36

While it's really interesting to debate whether you should eat potatoes or beef, the real battle for the western world is that we stop eating processed foods. Wheat vs eggs seems like a silly debate when people are living off of Coke, Oreos and Capt'N Crunch. Whenever I hear these arguments, I feel like these scientists aren't living in the same world as me. "Eggs are ok, declare scientists" reads the headline while…

Dont trust your eyes. You dont see people eating fatty foods at McDonalds. You see them eating a shitload of sugar, salt, and a little bit of fat and proteine.

If fat would make people fat, why are americans the mos obesive nation? Your diets, relatively speaking, consist of less fat than most european diets.

But way way more sugar. In the states, sugar is in everything, including most hamburgers, bread slices and soft drinks.

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#152

Post by ralfn » Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 1:30 PM UTC

analog wrote: post #102

progrock wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I'd advocate the E plan diet as a healthy weightloss program! Coconut is another food that's been demonised. Supposedly it actually encourages weight loss - and is a super food. I only wish it were cheaper here in the UK.

Well Ecstasy as an alternative to alcohol might actually be good for your overall health. I seem to remember that epistemologically it's one of the safest of the recreational drugs; safer than alcohol, tobacco, speed etc.

The problem with ectasy is that it is illegal and you are not able to judge the quality.

That makes its risky in society, but not by and of itself.

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#153

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 1:30 PM UTC

analog wrote: post #102

progrock wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I'd advocate the E plan diet as a healthy weightloss program! Coconut is another food that's been demonised. Supposedly it actually encourages weight loss - and is a super food. I only wish it were cheaper here in the UK.

Well Ecstasy as an alternative to alcohol might actually be good for your overall health. I seem to remember that epistemologically it's one of the safest of the recreational drugs; safer than alcohol, tobacco, speed etc.

[deleted]

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#154

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 1:30 PM UTC

analog wrote: post #102

progrock wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I'd advocate the E plan diet as a healthy weightloss program! Coconut is another food that's been demonised. Supposedly it actually encourages weight loss - and is a super food. I only wish it were cheaper here in the UK.

Well Ecstasy as an alternative to alcohol might actually be good for your overall health. I seem to remember that epistemologically it's one of the safest of the recreational drugs; safer than alcohol, tobacco, speed etc.

[deleted]

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#155

Post by pja » Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 1:39 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #126

fhoxh wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guyenet is a joke. Peter over at HyperLipid recently ripped him to utter shreds: http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2012/06/confused.html http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2012/06/insulin-un-de... Not to mention, Taubes countered Guyenet with a 6-part series refuting Guyenet's widely mocked food-reward/palatability hypothesis: http://garytaubes.com/2011/09/catching-up-on-lost-time-ances... http://garytaubes.…

I read through the first 3 of your links by taubes, which all seemed to be extremely verbose sophistry that don't address Guyanet's points at all. At what point does Taubes actually address Guyanet's (clearly stated) claim, that if food is tastier, people eat more of it, consume more calories, and become fatter?

The fourth link quotes Guyanet directly, so perhaps you stopped too soon?

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#156

Post by jtreminio » Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 1:41 PM UTC

fhoxh wrote: post #147

tokenadult wrote: post #142

Is the link submitted here throwing 403 errors for other HN users? I notice that many comments here on HN could just as well be responding to the bare title alone, whether or not the participant has read the fine article. Until I can read the article (I can't so far after repeated attempts), I'll give some history of how the cholesterol hypothesis was developed. Ancel Keys, a member of the Terman longitudinal study o…

As per his Twitter feed[1]: "We're being kicked off HostGator for crashing their server due to volume. Working to get a dedicated server. Sorry for inconvenience!" In the meantime, Google's cache of this article is here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?client=safari&#... And the direct link to his talk [video] is here: http://vimeo.com/45485034 [1] https://twitter.com/EatLikePete/statuses/225822001154117…

I can think of no less flattering phrase to describe HostGator: Unlimited until you get traffic.

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#157

Post by yummyfajitas » Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 1:42 PM UTC

fhoxh wrote: post #150

yummyfajitas wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read through the first 3 of your links by taubes, which all seemed to be extremely verbose sophistry that don't address Guyanet's points at all. At what point does Taubes actually address Guyanet's (clearly stated) claim, that if food is tastier, people eat more of it, consume more calories, and become fatter?

I would say that you might consider reading the complete 6-part series. :-)

I would say that if you want people to read a relevant link, you should at least say "here are 6 links, all but $N are all red herrings." Have a little respect for the time of the reader.

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#158

Post by randallsquared » Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 1:46 PM UTC

analog wrote: post #145

randallsquared wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Eventually"? That's putting on 30 pounds a year, assuming it's all about (caloriesIn - caloriesUsed) / 3600 = poundsOfFat. Of course, anyone who has dieted long term knows that that's not the whole story. You might cut your calories in half and still plateau within a few months.

As you put on more weight the amount of calories you need increases. I don't think cutting your calories in half would result in a plateau within a few months in most cases. That's quite a major reduction, pretty much a starvation diet.

As you put on more weight the amount of calories you need increases.

The initial claim was about 300 kcal more than you need, though.

My experience suggests plateau happens every time, without regard to the type of dieting done, unless it's quite literally a starvation diet. The only time I've manage to lose more than 100 pounds was on a diet of about 400 kcal a day. Reducing my diet from about 3500 kcal/day to half that (by the simple method of not eating every other day) worked really well for about two months, and then plateaued; total reduction, about 50 pounds. I've resigned myself to losing in bursts and concentrating on not putting much back on in between.

Of course, my sample size in number of people is low... :)

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#159

Post by Julianhearn » Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 1:48 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #124

Julianhearn wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weight gain is not because you have eaten the wrong food its due to too many calories. Simple as that.

What a stupid statement. It is analogous to this: "Why is this building crowded?" Your answer: "It's due to too many people inside. Simple as that." Real answer: There is a popular band inside, which has caused more people to walk into the building in a given 3 hour period than leave it. The "too many calories" people (you are one of them)all think that the effect of a bad diet (which is often bad caloric partitionin…

What evidence do you have that too many calories dont result in weight gain?

I bet you that if eat 5000 calories of "healthy" food and your daily requirement is 3000 you will gain weight, and if you eat 2000 calories of "bad" food you will lose weight.

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#160

Post by progrock » Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 1:56 PM UTC

1_player wrote: post #122

analog wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Ecstasy as an alternative to alcohol might actually be good for your overall health. I seem to remember that epistemologically it's one of the safest of the recreational drugs; safer than alcohol, tobacco, speed etc.

Well, it's safe if you buy it from a chemist. Also, in powder form (MDMA) is better than in pills.

I don't think that the associated brain damage linked to ecstasy makes it that safe in either form. Scientists can't assertain just yet as to whether the damage is human repairable or not.