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Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

nytimes.com

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Re: Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

#241

Post by fragmede »

bnt123 wrote: post #193
collingreen wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a summary of veganism that follows the principle that we shouldn't take sentient things and change their lives for our own ends. There are several important bits and nuances but the overarching point is to not have a world view where you see anything and prioritize what you can get out of it, regardless of the suffering you cause. Sometimes you hear it summarized as "they arent here for us". It is an interes…

I think we can agree humans tend to see reducing suffering as a good thing, and that people who we believe have caused suffering are viewed with disdain. With that in mind, here's a framework: "given two choices, is there a choice that 1) reduces suffering, and 2) is not prohibitively expensive (or in some other way too difficult to make)". "Too difficult" or "too expensive" is obviously subjective, but I don't think…

Because people lie to make money and keeping up with everything is exhausting. Free-range is a term regulated by the FDA but who knows the last time a regulator came by and checked the farm that the chicken came from? How do you tell the difference between a farmer that actually cares and is doing their best to be free range, and a farmer that's doing the bare minimum to meet that regulated standard when you're in the supermarket looking at a package? Is there a difference between meeting the minimum because you really care about chicken vs meeting the minimum because you care more about money? Why is the minimum in the regulation set at that level?

But more unfortunately though, they're not the same price and quality. Whole Foods is called Whole Paycheck for a reason. I can get cheaper food from a different store that's good enough.

Re: Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

#244

Post by mrtksn »

kbelder wrote: post #209
mrtksn wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I can't wait for lab grown meat becoming a thing. I love meat and my understanding is that its healthy and necessary product but i also have nothing but respect to vegetarians.

I've wondered why, instead of trying to lab grow meat (which I think is decades off, due to various problems), we just don't try to breed dumber, unfeeling, cows.

That's something that I was also thinking about. Maybe because we can't fine tune cows stupid enough to not to feel remorse for slaughtering but intelligent enough to breed, eat, take care of the calfs? Probably, at scale, it's not viable to take care of animals who can't function independently.

Re: Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

#245

Post by samuelbalogh »

andy_ppp wrote: post #4

Yes, it made me think about animals panicking so much before slaughter that they often have heart attacks. And dairy cows who have their babies slaughtered who cry for weeks. Maybe these are apocryphal stories, but we are very much trained to believe we shouldn’t anthropomorphise animals. I hope that we are able to grow meat in a way without suffering as soon as possible.

why should we wait for lab grown meat if we can go vegan right now?

Re: Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

#246

Post by aziaziazi »

bamboozled wrote: post #228
maxbond wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty common for would-be vegetarians to be "carbotarians" and fail to feed themselves properly because they simply don't know any better and eat primarily bread and pasta. I also had this experience of being a ravenous carbotarian, but my roommates were all vegetarians and taught me. If you don't know vegetarians, look to athletes and home chefs for advice. Tl;Dr combine a grain with a legume at least once a d…

Cooking a stake, is a lot easier than making a curry is kind of where it gets tricky for me. For now I make a chicken sandwich for lunch, take like 5-10 minutes, fills me up, what do I do as a vegetarian. I love the idea of it, I just think that being a vegetarian can be a luxury and takes more time for some people, especially who have larger frames and appetites.

Hu hu, recipe challenge YESSS !!

1. Throw in a pan: a can of cheakpeas or lentil, whatever cream (coconut/soy/oat), curry spices. If you got others frozen/canned vegetable on hand go for them but not mandatory. Thinks that don’t need real cooking like olives, tofu bites, fresh spinaches or shrooms can also go here.

2. Cook (heat-up, actually) for 5-10 minutes

3. Add some drops of lime juice in bottle or a branch of parsley or other herb. That’s for vitC, but eating a raw fruit or vegetable (carrot or celery), is also an easy option

4. Eat with bread

You can also do the same in a microwave oven to trade taste for convenience.

Personal topping : as a Mediterranean I put olive oil on basically everything, and often a bit of nutritional yeast.

Re: Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

#247

Post by aziaziazi »

kbelder wrote: post #209
mrtksn wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I can't wait for lab grown meat becoming a thing. I love meat and my understanding is that its healthy and necessary product but i also have nothing but respect to vegetarians.

I've wondered why, instead of trying to lab grow meat (which I think is decades off, due to various problems), we just don't try to breed dumber, unfeeling, cows.

can't help to think about Brave New World where they basically do that for inferior-cast humans. A great read. I recommend the sequel Brave New World Revisited

Those looks like to be the full texts (didn't verify):

https://www.huxley.net/bnw/index.html

https://www.huxley.net/bnw-revisited/

Re: Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

#248

Post by bamboozled »

aziaziazi wrote: post #236
bamboozled wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, this is why hunting is ethically superior. Almost nothing dies peacefully in the wild, it's either massive long term suffering, or being mauled by dogs, bears or big cats, strangled by pythons etc. A skilled hunter can choose an adult animal without kids and take it fairly humanely. Sadly, we all have to die somehow. Hunters and fisherman generally have great respect for nature and the environment, whi…

As a vegan I agree with that. However not all huntings are great, especially when conducted for fun instead of meat. Perhaps your already know the famous footage of new-head of NRA struggling to kill an elephant : https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56923507.amp (He says he gave later the meat to the villagers. I guess they ate it but I’m not sure they requested it in the first place)

I mean, that seems silly, I wouldn't hunt an elephant, I only hunt for food and elephants aren't on the menu.

That is just senseless violence in that video.

Re: Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

#249

Post by bnt123 »

fragmede wrote: post #241
bnt123 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can agree humans tend to see reducing suffering as a good thing, and that people who we believe have caused suffering are viewed with disdain. With that in mind, here's a framework: "given two choices, is there a choice that 1) reduces suffering, and 2) is not prohibitively expensive (or in some other way too difficult to make)". "Too difficult" or "too expensive" is obviously subjective, but I don't think…

Because people lie to make money and keeping up with everything is exhausting. Free-range is a term regulated by the FDA but who knows the last time a regulator came by and checked the farm that the chicken came from? How do you tell the difference between a farmer that actually cares and is doing their best to be free range, and a farmer that's doing the bare minimum to meet that regulated standard when you're in th…

Sorry, when I was comparing the foods, I was talking about meat versus plant-based foods. The point I was trying to make is that buying plant-based can be framed as a logical decision.

Re: Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

#250

Post by cloverich »

sheepscreek wrote: post #238
sheepscreek wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. The whole world is in a constant state of SNAFU. That is the sole truth I’ve understood from many years of pondering and soul searching. To make sense of this world (and the universe) beyond our limited means of comprehension is a futile attempt. Everything is relative - compassion, love, hurt, morality. One being’s loss is anothers’ blessing (food). I’m also not so hopeful about humans. A simple example: th…

In case I wasn’t clear, I asked ChatGPT to explain what I wrote above. I think it did a pretty good job: This reflection expresses a deeply existential and relativistic view of the world. Here’s a breakdown: 1. SNAFU as the Status Quo: The term SNAFU (Situation Normal, All Fouled Up) suggests that chaos, dysfunction, and disorder are inherent to the world. It implies acceptance that imperfection and unpredictability…

I actually love doing this, and then having ChatGPT alternatively criticize and support it preferentially leaning towards established fields. I.e. "This thing you've said is a deeply researched and discussed topic named X". Thanks for sharing.
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