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LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

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Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#601

Post by mulmen »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #580
mulmen wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taking the option away doesn't help anyone. Except firefighters, prisoners, and society.

I think having the option helps firefighters, helps prisoners, and helps society. Everyone is better off. Firefighters get additional support combating a huge problem, prisoners get shorter sentences, in society gets better fire prevention leading to fewer lives and Land Lost

Professional firefighters have to compete with prisoners for pay depressing firefighting wages.

Prisoners have to do dangerous work and suffer long term health consequences for no compensation. Reduced sentences don’t count because the base sentence can be set to whatever the state requires to meet slave labor demands.

Society loses because slave labor artificially reduces the cost of natural disasters. If slave labor is required to make an area safe for habitation then I submit that is not a safe place for habitation.

The ends do not justify the means.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#602

Post by lend000 »

baq wrote: post #423
lend000 wrote: post #356

This saga has led me to do some research on the state of modern firefighting. From what I've gathered, we're still using the same methods (more or less) we've been using since the 1960's when Phos-Chek was introduced. There have been significant improvements in information (locating fires early with satellites and drones as such), which is no doubt valuable, but I was underwhelmed by the lack of advancements in actua…

Or perhaps build in a way that can survive a fire if you want to live in a bush fire prone area…? Maybe don’t plant eucalyptus on the yard, etc.

Why not both?

Plenty of well defended houses burned down this week -- don't underestimate just how fireproof your house needs to be to withstand something like this. And littering everything with fire retardants comes with a whole different set of health and environmental problems.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#603

Post by mulmen »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #587
mulmen wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where is the requirement to work and how does it punish them additionally? Forced prison labor is legal in California. This means if a prisoner refuses to work they can be punished for that refusal. This could be with solitary confinement or revoking or removing good behavior benefits. > Sentencing is provided completely independent of labor and 99% of prisoners are ineligible or unable to firefight. Firefight mayb…

Slave labor is the labor of a slave. Removing the labor does not remove the slavery. How do you distinguish incarceration from slavery?

> Slave labor is the labor of a slave. Removing the labor does not remove the slavery.

What is happening in California is indentured servitude. I consider that to be a form of slavery. The labor is precisely what makes it slavery.

> How do you distinguish incarceration from slavery?

The compulsory uncompensated labor.

If prisoners received a fair wage and work was optional then I would have no objection. But they don’t receive a fair wage and working is not optional. Thus the prisoners are enslaved.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#604

Post by lend000 »

pluto_modadic wrote: post #497
lend000 wrote: post #356

This saga has led me to do some research on the state of modern firefighting. From what I've gathered, we're still using the same methods (more or less) we've been using since the 1960's when Phos-Chek was introduced. There have been significant improvements in information (locating fires early with satellites and drones as such), which is no doubt valuable, but I was underwhelmed by the lack of advancements in actua…

this has to be parody. what?!

I genuinely don't understand what happened to HN. When did curiosity, hypothetical discussion, and an interest in solving problems with technology become a source of derision and insecurity? Are you on the right forum?

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#605

Post by lend000 »

eesmith wrote: post #474
lend000 wrote: post #356

This saga has led me to do some research on the state of modern firefighting. From what I've gathered, we're still using the same methods (more or less) we've been using since the 1960's when Phos-Chek was introduced. There have been significant improvements in information (locating fires early with satellites and drones as such), which is no doubt valuable, but I was underwhelmed by the lack of advancements in actua…

That's an awful lot of CO2. You need it to stay there a long time, until the temperature gets below the ignition point, otherwise once the O2 comes back it will relight. You'll need it to get above the vegetation. You'll somehow need to prevent mixing of CO2 and O2 - remember, fires produce CO2 already. CO2 is heavier than air. It will not stay on a ridge but will flow downslope. CO2 is an invisible suffocation risk,…

CO2 is a major hazard, but of all the ideas listed and that I've read elsewhere, it does seem to have the most potential when the hazards are managed. That and tarps (instead of throwing them on the fire, perhaps laying them down to create strategic barriers to the spread of the fire).

But it's undoubtedly a very hard engineering challenge. Some of the photos of the fire show the flames dwarfing the planes used to drop retardant.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#606

Post by consumer451 »

kristjansson wrote: post #600
consumer451 wrote: post #591

People have lost their lives and many more have lost their homes. Elon Musk has chimed-in on the matter. I don't post this flippantly. As a huge fan of Tesla and SpaceX, someone please explain to me what is happening. https://i.redd.it/iasdlw98tzbe1.png

Apparently a fire chief wrote in her boilerplate online bio that her top priority was equity and inclusion with the fire department, so clearly firefighting wasn't her top priority, so clearly the entire disaster is her fault, and so DEI caused the wildfire.

Baltimore bridge disaster, Musk: DEI. Nothing supporting that.

Alaska Flight 1282, door blows off, Musk: DEI. Nothing supporting that.

I want an electrified future. I want a multi-planet civilization.

Read Alex Jones' text that Musk says is "true." It is objectively insane.

Why is he doing this? He is discrediting the species-level important things. He used to be the best of us, the clearest thinker. What in the heck happened?

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#607

Post by darth_avocado »

colechristensen wrote: post #346
azemetre wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And go where exactly? To towns that don't even have the tax base to support themselves and lack jobs? It's not like suburbs aren't sitting on financial bombs either.

Not every city is drowning in those kinds of liabilities.

Insert Homer Simpson meme “Not every city is drowning in those kinds of liabilities, yet”

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#608

Post by aaronbrethorst »

Yeul wrote: post #516
infecto wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FTFY: subsidize people living in red states Please leave politics out of this discussion, it's immature.

Lol tell that to Trump.

yep precisely: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-and-his-allies-foll...

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#609

Post by mulmen »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #583
mulmen wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, this is the loophole in the human psyche that California is exploiting in their slaves.

how so?

The desire to escape is strong in prison when the decision to fight fires is made. The self preservation instinct doesn’t kick in until the danger becomes real at which point it is too late.

This difference in perception is what prison labor exploits in prisoners.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#610

Post by mulmen »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #581
mulmen wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, exactly! And the presence of a choice in labor doesn’t change the fact that they’re slaves.

What's your definition of slave? Are you saying that they are slaves no matter what? What would make them not slaves? Are you opposed to all punishments of any sort?

> What's your definition of slave?

A person who is forced to do work.

> Are you saying that they are slaves no matter what?

They are slaves as long as they are forced to work.

> What would make them not slaves?

Not being forced to work.

> Are you opposed to all punishments of any sort?

I have no idea where you got this impression. If you need it spelled out then no, I am not opposed to all forms of punishment.

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