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How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

eatingacademy.com

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Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#31

Twelve years ago I had read too many peer-reviewed papers to know that low-cholesterol diets were a bad idea, and useless from the point of view of having a good blood-cholesterol profile. Useless because, for example, population study after population study showed that low-cholesterol diets did not improve blood-cholesterol. Furthermore, it was common to find populations with high-cholesterol diets that had an excel…

It has also been found that diets high in cholesterol and/or saturated fat also lowers testosterone [1,2,3]. I think the best course of action is to reduce rather than eliminate. i.e. "control" your intake of cholesterol and saturated fats. Blindly increasing your intake of either (above acceptable levels) goes against many scientific studies.

[1] http://www.drmirkin.com/men/1008.html [2] http://www.ergo-log.com/toomuchcholesterol.html [3] http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/03/study-of-t...

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#32
post #29
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taubes was right

Low-carb diets work for plenty of people (including me), but this is a must-read refutation of Taubes' carbohydrate hypothesis: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-h...

Guyenet is a joke.

Peter over at HyperLipid recently ripped him to utter shreds:

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2012/06/confused.html

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2012/06/insulin-un-de...

Not to mention, Taubes countered Guyenet with a 6-part series refuting Guyenet's widely mocked food-reward/palatability hypothesis:

http://garytaubes.com/2011/09/catching-up-on-lost-time-ances...

http://garytaubes.com/2011/11/catching-up-on-lost-time-–-the...

http://garytaubes.com/2011/11/catching-up-on-lost-time-–-the...

http://garytaubes.com/2011/11/catching-up-on-lost-time-–-the...

http://garytaubes.com/2011/11/catching-up-on-lost-time-–-the...

http://garytaubes.com/2011/11/catching-up-on-lost-time-–-the...

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#33
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

citation needed? When you say wheat, do you mean processed and refined flour? And by potatoes, do you mean chips and fries? Potatoes are loaded with vitamins and minerals. Some of the starch isn't easily digestible and acts similarly to fiber (in addition to the fiber found in the skin). The fact that they are little bombs of nutrition aside (along with sweet potatoes, yummm!), they will also keep fresh for months.

Most of the food we eat is derived from potatoes and corn. Actually, either directly or indirectly, mostly corn. source: Most meat is corn http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=that-burger... most everything we eat is from corn http://www.ecoliteracy.org/essays/we-are-what-we-eat

I'm aware that corn plays a huge part of North American diet (less so elsewhere since corn-fed beef isn't nearly as common), but I've never heard it said about potatoes..and while you mention it, you only provide links about corn.

Don't mean to be flippant, but it kinda sounds like you lumped potatoes in with corn for the sake of it.

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#34
I believe it coincided with converting to a nearly sedentary culture. Nothing is as bad for you as being sedentary and since many/most people refuse to exercise, and you can't buy exercise pills (let alone get people to take them), you have to get people to want to cut down on the stuff their body isn't using.

Cholesterol isn't bad, saturated fat isn't bad, but if you're sitting around all day festering so are they.

Nutrition is far from an exact science and humans from around the world react to foods differently in subtle ways giving any Nutritional conclusions limited relevance.

IMHO, The 2 most important things you can do are exercise and pay attention to your body. Also, a lot of these "mis-conceptions" come from media and laymen thinking that phrases like "a link between saturated fat and heart disease" imply causation.

Remembered one more thing: A lot of shit food is loaded with saturated fat and cholesterol (and salt and sugar). Frozen dinners, snack cakes and fast food are some great examples. These products, which significantly contribute to the fattening of the world, help give their main flavor sources a bad name.

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#35
post #32
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low-carb diets work for plenty of people (including me), but this is a must-read refutation of Taubes' carbohydrate hypothesis: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-h...

Guyenet is a joke. Peter over at HyperLipid recently ripped him to utter shreds: http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2012/06/confused.html http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2012/06/insulin-un-de... Not to mention, Taubes countered Guyenet with a 6-part series refuting Guyenet's widely mocked food-reward/palatability hypothesis: http://garytaubes.com/2011/09/catching-up-on-lost-time-ances... http://garytaubes.…

Cool, I'll take a look at Peter's posts - I like him in general. Btw, Stephan did respond to Taubes' 6-part series:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/11/brief-response...

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#36
While it's really interesting to debate whether you should eat potatoes or beef, the real battle for the western world is that we stop eating processed foods. Wheat vs eggs seems like a silly debate when people are living off of Coke, Oreos and Capt'N Crunch.

Whenever I hear these arguments, I feel like these scientists aren't living in the same world as me. "Eggs are ok, declare scientists" reads the headline while the man sips from 32 oz soda.

In addition to that, having no education in biology, chemistry or any field remotely associated with health and fitness, I do have two eyes. In light of all the contradicting information and conspiracy theories, I'll trust what I've observed. And, what I've observed, beyond a shadow of a doubt, is that people who favor fruits and vegetables, grains and legumes over beef, pork and fatty foods are healthier.

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#37
I defer to Walter C. Willet, M.D., who writes in "Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy" (co-developed with the Harvard School of Public Health):

"There's no question that two types of fat -- saturated fat, the kind that's abundant in whole milk or red meat, and trans fats, which are found in many margarines and vegetable shortenings -- contribute to the artery-clogging process that leads to heart disease, stroke, and other problems...monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats found in olive oil and other vegetable oils, nuts, whole grains, other plant products, and fish -- are good for your heart.... Our bottom line is this: It is perfectly fine to get more than 30 percent of your daily calories from fats as long as most of those fats are unsaturated."

"The term saturated means that the carbon atoms in a chain hold as many hydrogen atoms as they can...saturated fats come in gradations of bad...butter and other dairy products most strongly increase LDL (bad) cholesterol. Those in beef fat aren't quite as powerful at boosting LDL and those in chocolate and cocoa butter have an even smaller impact."

HDL and LDL are lipoproteins: "...fats must somehow get from your digestive system to your cells...like oil and water, fats and blood don't mix. If your intestines or liver simply dumped digested fats into your blood, they would congeal into unusable globs. Instead fat is packaged into protein-covered particles that mix easily with blood and flow with it. These tiny particles, called lipoproteins (lipid plus protein), contain some cholesterol to help stabilize the particles.

"Lipoproteins are generally classified by the balance of fat and protein they contain. Those with a little fat and a lot of protein are heavier and more dense than the lighter, fluffier, and less dense particles that are more fat than protein. The proteins also act like address labels that help the body route fat-filled particles to specific destinations.

"LDL is often referred to as the bad cholesterol...they can end up inside cells that line blood vessels. Once there, LDL is attacked by highly reactive free radicals and transformed into oxidized LDL. Oxidized LDL can damage the artery lining and kick off a cascade of reactions that clog the artery and set the scene for artery-blocking blood clots.

"In contrast, HDL particles sponge up excess cholesterol from the lining of blood vessels and elsewhere and carry it to the liver for disposal."

He goes on to list several studies: Ancil Keys' 1956 international survey called the Seven Countries Study which found a strong link between saturated fat and heart disease; the Framingham Heart Study, which identified high levels of cholesterol as linked to impending heart disease; the Nurses' Health Study and the Health Professionals Follow-Up Study (both very large cohort studies); the Lyon Diet Heart Study; and others. "In the 1950s and 1960s, dozens of carefully controlled feeding studies among small groups of volunteers showed conclusively that when saturated fat replaced carbohydrate in the diet, total cholesterol levels in the blood rose...."

The book also talks about the challenges of practical, large-scale studies of nutrition "in the wild": it's not easy to track and correlate people's eating habits over decades, for any number of reasons.

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#39
post #36

While it's really interesting to debate whether you should eat potatoes or beef, the real battle for the western world is that we stop eating processed foods. Wheat vs eggs seems like a silly debate when people are living off of Coke, Oreos and Capt'N Crunch. Whenever I hear these arguments, I feel like these scientists aren't living in the same world as me. "Eggs are ok, declare scientists" reads the headline while…

You should read the book "Wheat Belly". That will bust that myth about grains and fruits for you.

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#40
post #28
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

citation needed? When you say wheat, do you mean processed and refined flour? And by potatoes, do you mean chips and fries? Potatoes are loaded with vitamins and minerals. Some of the starch isn't easily digestible and acts similarly to fiber (in addition to the fiber found in the skin). The fact that they are little bombs of nutrition aside (along with sweet potatoes, yummm!), they will also keep fresh for months.

Any wheat and any potatoes according to people like Gary Taubes. Sweet potatoes are probably better than regular spuds. Wheat and potatoes are mostly just carbohydrates which, as explained in the video we're discussing, should be reduced. There's no such thing as an 'essential carbohydrate' and all other vitamins and minerals in potatoes and wheat can also be found in more than sufficient quantities in 'good' foods l…

This is where I find Dr. Ludwig's work interesting. My understanding is that you can't just look at nutrients individually. For example, a carbohydrate eaten in a highly processed form is digested, substantially different, at a chemical level, than carbohydrates eaten with fiber.

I don't doubt that carbohydrate consumption has gone up and with it, suspiciously, so too has obesity. But I can't help but think we should be looking at the package containing these newly consumed carbohydrates.

A mars bars contains 40g of carbohydrate...are people grouping that with 40g of carbohydrates yielded by potatoes and wheat?

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