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Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

nytimes.com

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Re: Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

#141

Post by tw04 »

cloverich wrote: post #68
bobxmax wrote: post #3

> Tahlequah is using much of her energy to cling to the dead calf, which weighs about 300 pounds, and she is unable to forage for food, scientists said during a news briefing on Thursday. They said that her closely knit pod was supporting her. Other female orcas, especially her sister, have been observed to be consistently at her side. Utterly tragic. It's also singularly evil the devastation humans have brought to s…

I always have mixed feelings about this. It's sad. But how is her pod supporting her exactly? Are they bringing her food? If so is that food the dead offspring of other animals? I feel these kinds of stories often have a kind of selective empathy for the focused animal. Ultimately nature is extraordinarily cruel absent humans; imo humans are the only hope for something better, if such a thing even makes sense.

And yet nature has historically found balance. Humans, on a large scale, seem incapable of doing the same. At this point humans have become a perpetual extinction event with no end in sight.

Re: Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

#144

Post by throwaway290 »

Panoramix wrote: post #114
aziaziazi wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just need more people to see things people see on a farm There's many "educational farms" to show kids live farms animals and sometimes pick the eggs and milk a cow. I'm very confused about them: it's good to let urban kids see-smell-touch real farms animals. However they have nothing in common with modern farming, even the not-inhumane ones. BUT telling a 6yo toddler "look that cute cow, this is where your morning…

When I was a small child in a rural environment, my uncle slaughtered a lamb for eating. It was a bloody messy hell. It was an eye opener but it didn't have the impact you think it had, if anything it desensitizes you. My uncle also showed respect and gratefulness to the animals and I also understood why we don't waste animal products.

I know someone who is hard core vegetarian because of impression from childhood, it all depends.

Maybe you see a normal farm and get to know the animals then see an actual factory where it is industrialized...

Re: Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

#145

Post by jvanderbot »

cloverich wrote: post #68
bobxmax wrote: post #3

> Tahlequah is using much of her energy to cling to the dead calf, which weighs about 300 pounds, and she is unable to forage for food, scientists said during a news briefing on Thursday. They said that her closely knit pod was supporting her. Other female orcas, especially her sister, have been observed to be consistently at her side. Utterly tragic. It's also singularly evil the devastation humans have brought to s…

I always have mixed feelings about this. It's sad. But how is her pod supporting her exactly? Are they bringing her food? If so is that food the dead offspring of other animals? I feel these kinds of stories often have a kind of selective empathy for the focused animal. Ultimately nature is extraordinarily cruel absent humans; imo humans are the only hope for something better, if such a thing even makes sense.

I've recently taken up hunting, mostly because my rural family prioritizes it.

The natural world is full of unimaginable cruelty. Wolves will take down young deer and eat them alive while parents watch. Bears will pin down whatever they can catch and who cares if it is alive. On and on, the amount of bloodshed required to support an omnivore/carnivore is simply bananas. Killer whales are hyper-intelligent aquatic nightmares, imho, that thankfully have not decided to eat humans.

We, humans, made the following bargain with nature, at least until recently: We will drive away the predators that keep you in constant alert and savage your children, and in exchange we will determine how and when you die (quickly, but perhaps also fearfully).

I agree - we can carefully manage the wilderness for our own benefit, and that may take away the randomized killings. But there is _no_ version of a carnivore or meat-eating omnivore that does not involve killing and savagery and disregard for the life that has been reduced to just a link in the grass-to-meat or plankton-to-meat foodchain.

I've come to terms with that and continue to eat meat.

Re: Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

#146

Post by vasco »

gverrilla wrote: post #132
vasco wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope to have the discernment to tell the difference between the irrational things I cannot change from the ones I can, and I don't think I'm changing this, so I accept it.

Few people believed slavery, a mechanism that stood for millennia, would end. Yet..

I also think eventually we won't eat animals, just not in my lifetime. Practicality doesn't need to be blind to morality and might also be wrong (it might be faster than I think).

Re: Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

#147

Post by Cpoll »

jvanderbot wrote: post #145
cloverich wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always have mixed feelings about this. It's sad. But how is her pod supporting her exactly? Are they bringing her food? If so is that food the dead offspring of other animals? I feel these kinds of stories often have a kind of selective empathy for the focused animal. Ultimately nature is extraordinarily cruel absent humans; imo humans are the only hope for something better, if such a thing even makes sense.

I've recently taken up hunting, mostly because my rural family prioritizes it. The natural world is full of unimaginable cruelty. Wolves will take down young deer and eat them alive while parents watch. Bears will pin down whatever they can catch and who cares if it is alive. On and on, the amount of bloodshed required to support an omnivore/carnivore is simply bananas. Killer whales are hyper-intelligent aquatic nig…

> We will drive away the predators that keep you in constant alert and savage your children, and in exchange we will determine how and when you die (quickly, but perhaps also fearfully).

Maybe once in the past, or in places that still graze their animals. I don't think the average factory farm situation can be framed as mutually beneficial for the animals.

Re: Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

#148

Post by lotsofpulp »

shadow28 wrote: post #32
lotsofpulp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Humans aren't always rational and that's okay, we're all human after all :)

It’s considered not okay if we replace vegetarian with skin tone.

Re: Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

#149

Post by lotsofpulp »

mystified5016 wrote: post #34
lotsofpulp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Most vegetarians decide to choose that diet after contemplating the suffering of the animals involved. Or had you never thought to ask why someone would be vegetarian?

I think the confusion is because Daub might have meant vegetarianism (the idea) instead of vegetarians (the people).

Re: Orca that carried dead calf for weeks appears to be in mourning again

#150

Post by lotsofpulp »

maeil wrote: post #137
bamboozled wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the stuff, but interestingly, I found it easiest to buy in Indonesia, Australia and the USA. Outside of that, it's hard to get or very expensive.

Plenty of tofu dishes in Korea and part of China. Almost never vegan, but often vegetarian.

In the US, almost every broth or dish at an East/southeast restaurant uses shrimp/fish sauce or other animal product like beef/chicken stock.

They usually prep it in advance, so it’s rare to find one that has an actually vegan dish they don’t custom make even if it says tofu.

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