Nvidia releases its own brand of world models • Hacker News Board

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#31

Post by mewpmewp2 » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 1:03 PM UTC

esperent wrote: post #16

prosunpraiser wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the solution is quite simple - don’t release in EU.

People keep saying this, but I've yet to see a company follow through.

I am from EU and we have been getting a lot of things much later and having to use VPNs to get past this. Sometimes even a VPN is not enough since we need US phone number etc. Couldn't get access to Claude and OpenAI advanced voice mode for a long time. It feels very frustrating since others can already start building with cutting edge things, giving them a huge advantage.

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#32

Post by pbronez » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 1:05 PM UTC

esperent wrote: post #16

prosunpraiser wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the solution is quite simple - don’t release in EU.

People keep saying this, but I've yet to see a company follow through.

Meta and Apple both declined to release AI tools in the EU due to regulations:

https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/meta-follows...

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#33

Post by skyyler » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 1:07 PM UTC

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #4

actionfromafar wrote: post #3

What stops Nvidia from cutting out the middlemen? They have the chips.

There is probably more money to be made selling the tools.

I wonder if any shovel manufacturers invested into mining during the gold rush...

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#34

Post by pottertheotter » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 1:12 PM UTC

jsheard wrote: post #21

bberenberg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe they’re profitable on all unit economics other than the $200/month tier. The users who opt into this are the absolute “highest” users so you end up with an adverse selection issue with this plan.

That doesn't seem to gel with the fact that they lost $5 billion overall last year, mostly before the $200 tier was even available.

They said profitable unit economics, not profitable as a company.

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#35

Post by thegeomaster » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 1:17 PM UTC

homebrewer wrote: post #24

resource_waste wrote: post #11

The AI race is one of the most impressive examples of Capitalism making the market efficient. Or at least I've witnessed in my life. We went from Google having complete control. To Open AI releasing GPT2 which really inspired a lot of people to try it. Then GPT3+ convinced the world to try it. After that, Gemini, LLaMa, every type of fine-tune... The noteworthy thing is that LLaMA was good enough that ChatGPT had com…

Good enough for what? I've been playing around with local models that often get mentioned here (llama3.3, mistral, etc.) and they routinely provide incorrect code that does not even compile or implements algorithms that have nothing to do with the task at hand, generate invalid JSON like '{ "foo": bar - 42 }', write nonsensical statements like "CR1616 has double the capacity of CR2032", etc. I'm yet to find a useful…

Yeah, I would like to know this. From my perspective, even frontier models by the big players (4o, 3.5 Sonnet) can be unreliable at times, and are at best just walking the line of usefulness for a lot of "exact" tasks (for me: programming, approximation and back-of-the-envelope calculations, expertise on subjects I'm unfamiliar with, a better Google, etc.).

The only deal that would make sense for me is to get something more accurate, and these open models just go in the wrong direction. I've observed similar behavior to what you mention. I'd really like to know how people use them and for what tasks so that their performance is acceptable.

In agentic settings, cost and latency are also a large factor since tokens are consumed invisibly, so I think a lot of these systems are waiting for a trifecta of better accuracy, better cost and better latency to make them viable. It's unclear that this is coming, at least it hasn't been the trend so far.

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#36

Post by Sharlin » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 1:23 PM UTC

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #31

esperent wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep saying this, but I've yet to see a company follow through.

I am from EU and we have been getting a lot of things much later and having to use VPNs to get past this. Sometimes even a VPN is not enough since we need US phone number etc. Couldn't get access to Claude and OpenAI advanced voice mode for a long time. It feels very frustrating since others can already start building with cutting edge things, giving them a huge advantage.

Yes, unfortunately in this world not being "ethically constrained" can give you a big advantage. Still doesn't mean one should not strive to do the right thing.

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#37

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 1:26 PM UTC

pottertheotter wrote: post #34

jsheard wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't seem to gel with the fact that they lost $5 billion overall last year, mostly before the $200 tier was even available.

They said profitable unit economics, not profitable as a company.

[deleted]

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#38

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 1:32 PM UTC

redeux wrote: post #19

betimsl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No problem. If you are in EU, you upload your input to a server located in US, that way EU law can watch you do that.

That would not work. It's the company who's responsible for compliance with EU laws and regulations in this case, not the user. So, if the company allows EU users they are de facto operating in the EU and thus out of compliance with the training data transparency law cited above.

[deleted]

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#39

Post by fbn79 » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 1:32 PM UTC

actionfromafar wrote: post #3

What stops Nvidia from cutting out the middlemen? They have the chips.

Doing so would mean incentivizing customers to seek alternative routes and migrate to competitor. Thus with the risk of losing the current moat.

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#40

Post by weird-eye-issue » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 1:33 PM UTC

Sharlin wrote: post #36

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am from EU and we have been getting a lot of things much later and having to use VPNs to get past this. Sometimes even a VPN is not enough since we need US phone number etc. Couldn't get access to Claude and OpenAI advanced voice mode for a long time. It feels very frustrating since others can already start building with cutting edge things, giving them a huge advantage.

Yes, unfortunately in this world not being "ethically constrained" can give you a big advantage. Still doesn't mean one should not strive to do the right thing.

It is subjective.