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I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

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Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#381

Post by blitzar »

croemer wrote: post #369
brushfoot wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One half of me is sympathetic with you, the other wonders whether you're trying to get attention for a job (this is how the end of your LinkedIn post makes it sound). Why not both. I hire, and it crossed my mind to reach out to him when I read the ending. The project shows ambition and independent thought, two virtues in my book. He's smart to leverage the attention. Might as well get some benefit out of the univer…

I'm not sure whether I can trust the story as he presents it. The fact that he might be out for attention is a reason to have doubts, because he might have made the case look more extreme than it is so it trends better. There are a couple of other question marks: - Says he'll graduate this year, but he's only started at UW 1.5y ago, his project team mates also started 1.5y ago, so the course does not seem to be super…

It must have been a survey course. Frankly, I found the course rather elementary.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#382

Post by flir »

dgfitz wrote: post #99
LPisGood wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is bonkers, and sort of smells. I’m not saying you have outright said anything untrue, but there is at least some ambiguity that my mind is filling in, potentially incorrectly. Can you clarify how you got the Swagger files? Were they publicly available? Could you share the exact verbiage they used to seemingly extort labor and intellectual property from you? Does the university have some previously existing (and…

I wouldn't answer this question if I were the OP.

Neither would I, but they're very good questions. If I was OP, I'd want to make sure my answers were watertight.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#383

Post by polotics »

Amidst all of the talk about the reported coercion attempt, which is bad, may I also ask something about the bait and switch: so you paid a lot of money to attend a given university and then even though your grades and everything else would in theory allow you to follow a class you can be blocked because of resource constraints that are not advertised as something you would have to contend with when you paid the big ticket tuition fee?

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#384

Post by geraldwhen »

ahahahahah wrote: post #107
hooverd wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I don't understand the response to him here. You can just tell the random student who wants the keys to the student database "no" and go about your day.

It's almost like this one-sided story is leaving some things out.

Nope. Universities are wild and their technology is weak. It’s always been this way.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#385

Post by hartator »

jdkaim wrote: post #7

Update: I immediately took down my class project site after receiving yesterday’s ultimatum. I still don’t think the simple demo site violated the letter or spirit of the registration rules, but I took it down because I always want to operate in good faith. They followed up today to thank me for doing it, but also indicated that they were putting a hold on my account anyway. As a result, I am not going to be able to…

> I immediately took down my class project site after receiving yesterday’s ultimatum.

Never do this.

You are on the right, they are on the wrong. This makes sound like you are doing something wrong.

Standing your ground on what you believe is right - technically, legally, ethically, ideology - would be what make you very successful in the long term.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#386

Post by PennRobotics »

uwthrowaway wrote: post #356
jjmarr wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I saw that linked in the top comment. What isn't clear is how this site actually violated that policy, if there was no course slot trading actually occurring. You could describe it as an attempt , but in this situation, the student asked for permission from the school before doing something that would violate their policies. To use an analogy, if I sneak notes into an exam, that is likely academic misconduct. Ho…

I'd personally describe it as an attempt for two reasons, although reasonable minds can differ: 1. They made substantial progress towards a working tool with available code, before requesting permission from the school. That request was to enable parts of the site, not requesting permission to develop/release it publicly. 2. It is pretty clear to students that you aren't allowed to mess with any of the registration s…

Yet another analogy is designing and presenting a radar detector/jammer but never using it on public roads.

Until the author has used the tool on the UW server during registration, he is not violating their policies and procedures: He hasn't attempted to tamper with records. He admittedly hasn't used their registration system with this tool. Those are the two key phrases in their policy. The text goes on to specifically describe abuse as "use" of a script or robot. There isn't anything forbidding a student from authoring a script.

One problem here is that by releasing the source, it makes it easier for another student to exploit the system. In the case where another student uses this tool during registration, the other student is fully responsible.

Besides all that, it's a great project idea because everyone in his program would instantly relate to the problem.

It's easy to understand the University's overreaction---and it is an overreaction. The better solution from UW would have been to sternly inform the student(s), "The website can never go live. It dies as a proof of concept. Please use your own dummy data; no API access. A disclaimer must be added to any class demos (presentations, code, etc.) with the Tampering and Abuse policy, and that this only uses generated data. Our efforts to improve the registration system in the future will be X, Y, Z."

This student has done nothing wrong (yet) (based on what he revealed) and is getting punished for being near the border.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#387

Post by The_suffocated »

“...find partners to trade spots in critical classes after they filled up”.

I am not from the USA and I don’t understand the context. What does “trade spots” mean? Does it mean that if I have registered to course A but not course B and my friend have registered to course B but not course A, we can swap our registered courses in the official registration system?

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#388

Post by neilv »

jdkaim wrote: post #7

Update: I immediately took down my class project site after receiving yesterday’s ultimatum. I still don’t think the simple demo site violated the letter or spirit of the registration rules, but I took it down because I always want to operate in good faith. They followed up today to thank me for doing it, but also indicated that they were putting a hold on my account anyway. As a result, I am not going to be able to…

As you describe it, it sounds like some element of the university may have made a mistake, but (no offense) I'm not yet certain that you fully understand the situation and are being fully forthright.

Hopefully, the matter will be cleared up quickly and satisfactorily, for all parties.

> I am not planning to get a lawyer involved as I have faith that [university] leadership will make it right in the end.

Ironically, the fact that you went public on what could be a delicate internal matter might've escalated things, more than consulting a lawyer would.

At a university, if there's at least one specific administrator or full professor who you both trust, and think has clout to resolve the matter satisfactorily, then trusting the university to make things right might be reasonable.

Or, if your university is a rare one that has unusually good conventions of honorable behavior, which you know are practiced by most (including administrators, faculty, staff, and students), and there are effective checks and balances for when that fails, then maybe you're also OK.

But, in most universities, when an official is talking about possibly ruining your career/life, then either you fudged up really-really badly (so, consult a lawyer), or you're in danger of learning just how bad a largely unaccountable institution of largely unaccountable individuals can get (so, consult a lawyer).

Also, if an official you're talking with ever asks if you've filed a lawsuit, and says they have to stop talking with you if you do, don't say that you want to work collegially with the university to resolve the situation internally. A shitty person hearing that will totally take advantage of naive you, to neutralize the risk from you. Run, don't walk, to consult a lawyer.

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