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LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

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Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#421

Post by sahila »

kristopolous wrote: post #368
JKCalhoun wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crime is rampant, cut the police budget. I hear ya'.

If crime is rampant at a $2,000,000,000 spend, then you're spending it poorly. If the strategy isn't working at $2 billion, what makes you think it will start working at $2.1 billion? The responsibility is on the supporters to demonstrate the efficacy of the current approach. Where are the results?

Couldn't the same be said of a fire department with a $800,000,000 budget? Clearly they're not doing so hot, we should cut it further.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#422

Post by sahila »

daedrdev wrote: post #304
rurp wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, and just to drive home the point the official motto of the California Conservation Corps, which does a lot fire fighting and prevention in the state, is “Hard work, low pay, miserable conditions, and more.”[0] I get that the motto is somewhat tongue in cheek but still, slave labor does tend to distort markets. [0] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/natio...

To be clear, fighting fires is done by prisoners who volunteer and my understanding is that it is highly sought after

Can the prisoners volunteer to be teachers or work at Meta too, or is only one market affected?

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#423

Post by baq »

lend000 wrote: post #356

This saga has led me to do some research on the state of modern firefighting. From what I've gathered, we're still using the same methods (more or less) we've been using since the 1960's when Phos-Chek was introduced. There have been significant improvements in information (locating fires early with satellites and drones as such), which is no doubt valuable, but I was underwhelmed by the lack of advancements in actua…

Or perhaps build in a way that can survive a fire if you want to live in a bush fire prone area…? Maybe don’t plant eucalyptus on the yard, etc.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#424

Post by mulmen »

baq wrote: post #419
mulmen wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There's only so much you can do" doesn't mean "we have done what we can" or even "we have done enough".

Shouldn’t have built expensive houses for a start

> Shouldn’t have built expensive houses for a start

Why not?

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#425

Post by sahila »

svnt wrote: post #299
svnt wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can achieve the same result by paying them prevailing wage. This has the extra benefit of giving them some saved up money to start a new life when they get out, helping them avoid falling back into a life of crime to make ends meet. I don’t see how you can do this, because you turn punishment into privilege. If the way to firefighter pay is through a jail cell you create all kind of problems around perverse inc…

No one has a response, they just downvote because they don’t like the reality of the situation?

Because no one is actually seriously proposing to pay prisoners the same rate as real firefighters; we just shouldn't be using prisoners. Would you allow prisoners to volunteer as teachers, nurses, engineers? Why is the market for firefighters the only one that gets free volunteers from this pool?

But it's not just hurting the firefighter market, lots of people just have issues with using prisoners as slaves.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#426

Post by baq »

vFunct wrote: post #385

After hurricane Andrew Florida changed their building codes to account for hurricanes. But can California do the same for wildfires? Is it even possible to construct fireproof homes? (With stone construction or whatever?)

You can use bricks but you still need to tear everything down if the fire comes close to the building because pipes and wires can’t be made from bricks - nowadays, it’s all plastic except the copper.

But… if you build a brick wall and keep your yard fire proof, you have a shot.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#427

Post by lend000 »

vachina wrote: post #365
lend000 wrote: post #356

This saga has led me to do some research on the state of modern firefighting. From what I've gathered, we're still using the same methods (more or less) we've been using since the 1960's when Phos-Chek was introduced. There have been significant improvements in information (locating fires early with satellites and drones as such), which is no doubt valuable, but I was underwhelmed by the lack of advancements in actua…

You do not want and cannot have a startup run these critical services. Just reeks of VC opportunists and cash grab.

Running critical services is a whole different thing than developing technology to sell to fire departments (which is already what happens, albeit with less innovation than I'd like to see).

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#428

Post by mschuster91 »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #343
geysersam wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there areas of California where insurers are not operating anymore because of wildfires? That's crazy

Yes, there are parts of California that are uninsurable against wildfires. Technically they could be insurable but State regulators will not allow insurance companies to raise premiums sufficient to cover the actuarial risk. The necessary premiums are prohibitively expensive for homeowners, but anything less risks bankrupting the insurance companies and increases their reinsurance costs which also must be passed on t…

> More proactive and competent wildfire mitigation would reduce the risk and therefore make insurance premiums more reasonable.

Or... not building mansions next to forestry? In Germany we have pretty strict requirements on distances, so it's rare for damages to occur. Also, most of our power grid infrastructure is buried below ground, so videos like the ones circulating on Twitter from arcing lines setting bushes and trees alight can't really happen here either.

Prevention is orders of magnitude cheaper in the long run.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#429

Post by solatic »

mulmen wrote: post #359
s1artibartfast wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, I expect there are some foundational differences in world view at play. IMO, its not slavery because it is 100% optional. It is a restricted privilege that prisoners actively seek and compete for. It is sought after because it is an improvement over the alternative. I'm honestly unsure how this can be framed as a negative.

> yeah, I expect there are some foundational differences in world view at play. Agree. I find it fascinating that perspectives can be so different. > It it is sought after because it is an improvement over the alternative. Yep, no objection from me. > I'm honestly unsure how this can be framed as a negative. To me it's the part where prison is apparently even worse than risking your life fighting fires for free. The…

> To me it's the part where prison is apparently even worse than risking your life fighting fires for free.

Makes perfect sense to me, even if the prison was a five-star hotel. The human mind is hard-wired to want to explore and get out. Universally, one of the most difficult parts of being in prison is being forced to stay within the prison walls. The fact that these walls exist is a necessary compromise between keeping society safe and the natural rights of those imprisoned. Any opportunity to get outside the walls will of course be desirable.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#430

Post by trhway »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #63
trhway wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Both of these produce lots of smoke. i suggest you view a bunch of real IR footage. > Neither can be doused by drones. I'm pretty sure 20 tons of water would douse a house fire. It would take 10 flights of an F8F Bearcat sized drone. Though the F8F is an overkill built for speed. One can carry 1-2 ton with much simpler plane today for that purpose. An acre size fire - an acre-inch of water is 100 ton. So 10 drones 1…

> suggest you view a bunch of real IR footage For what? I’m familiar with very sensitive IR systems. I’m struggling to see the advantage of having them on drones versus satellites, particularly if the threshold is an entire house is on fire.

>I’m struggling to see the advantage of having them on drones versus satellites

An IR camera on drone can be fine-grain controlled from the ground when needed - say zoom-in from a 100km on something detected in the sweep like even a camp-fire so you can confirm whether it is a starting wildfire or just a camp-fire - that of course requires hardware like on those pricey military drones, yet it is still a pocket change in this context. You can also much easily reroute the drone. Again, if you watch the drone war footage there is a lot of scenarios where satellite wouldn't work.

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