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LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

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Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#331

Post by mulmen »

daedrdev wrote: post #319
mulmen wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still uneasy about it. They're in a vulnerable position and the alternative is unpleasant because of the same people offering the "opportunity". The pay is only legal because they're prisoners. If it was a fair wage I'd be more comfortable although still uneasy.

It's one of the most sought after opportunities in prison. And the state can't afford to pay them fully. Considering they want to do it, and the state already pays a huge amount to house prisoners, its not that insane

> It's one of the most sought after opportunities in prison.

"In prison" is doing a lot of work there.

> And the state can't afford to pay them fully.

Then the state can't afford to be on fire. An externality that isn't accounted for.

> Considering they want to do it, and the state already pays a huge amount to house prisoners, its not that insane.

I'm really shocked to hear someone just casually say slavery in the United States in 2025 isn't insane. I mean it's legal so maybe I am the crazy one but I'm personally troubled that this practice is going on. I don't even like that my state uses prison labor for license plates and that's not life threatening.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#332

Post by nradov »

mullingitover wrote: post #249
mulmen wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still uneasy about it. They're in a vulnerable position and the alternative is unpleasant because of the same people offering the "opportunity". The pay is only legal because they're prisoners. If it was a fair wage I'd be more comfortable although still uneasy.

California voters had a question before them in this election of whether or not to ban the practice of slavery, and they voted to keep practicing slavery.

It's not slavery. The inmate firefighters are paid below minimum wage but it's completely voluntary. They can quit any time and go sit in state prison if they prefer. We can argue about whether they should be paid more, but let's not trivialize real slavery by misusing the term.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#333

Post by tobinfekkes »

A cousin works at JPL leading the Mars Rover program. Her house burnt down this afternoon :(

She's moved to an RV on her parent's property an hour away, temporarily. Thankful for backup option, but she put a lot of sweat and tears (and money) into fixing that little house up!

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#334

Post by onecommentman »

gammarator wrote: post #285
kethinov wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot more could be done: https://www.slowboring.com/p/a-better-approach-to-forest-man...

These aren’t “forests” like in other parts of the West so much as cliffs covered in dry, scrubby brush. I’m pessimistic that they could be systematically cleared or burned in a controlled way.

Burning in a dense residential area…no. Draconian clearing of all trees and brush except for selective fire-aware landscaping…yes, but you are paying significant money to make the residential area look uglier (in some eyes, it’s just a High Desert aesthetic for others), a hard sell.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#335

Post by relwin »

gruez wrote: post #243
sbohacek wrote: post #163

The relative humidity is 0.33 [1]. The previous lowest recorded relative humidity was 0.36 in Needles CA and Iran [2] [1] https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=KSMO [2] https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/world-record-low-humidity-...

What causes the humidity to be so low? Is the fire lowering the humidity? Or the lower humidity causing the fire?

Wiki Santa Ana winds. They typically bring <10% humidity as they blow towards the pacific ocean. This can happen overnight and you'll wake up with "raisin-eyes".

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#336

Post by martinpw »

mturmon wrote: post #300
earnestinger wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is burning? Mostly bushes or mostly homes?

Some harrowing before and after photos from a Maxar instrument via LA Times (may be pay walled): https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-01-08/shocking... This shows Altadena, just east of JPL, and Malibu (separate fires, of course).

This is a horrific satellite picture of Altadena:

https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/06-closer-s...

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#337

Post by saagarjha »

svnt wrote: post #330
saagarjha wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is stopping you from being a firefighter outside of jail.

Have you tried? Do you have your certs? Would you pass the physical? Background check?

I mean if your concern is "people in prison have an easier path to being a firefighter" maybe we should reconsider what it means to be one?

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#338

Post by emmelaich »

earnestinger wrote: post #77

I see there are three separate fires several km apart. How do they start so synchronously?

There's always a slight chance of arsonists.

Every few years in Australia we get a story of arsonists setting fires. Sometimes they're firefighters, too.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#339

Post by emmelaich »

kristjansson wrote: post #158
tanseydavid wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Neither can be doused by drones. Identification only by drone. Then the dousing is done by conventional means, but dispatched locally.

Detection is not the issue, fires in populated (i.e. costly to burn) areas are dispatched very quickly. All the LA fires were on Watch Duty at 1-5 acres in size. The problem is fighting them at that size, when they're on vertiginous terrain, and winds keep conventional (i.e. manned) aircraft grounded.

And yet people have died, which seems unnecessary. You don't need to fight them, you often can only evacuate.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#340

Post by s1artibartfast »

mulmen wrote: post #331
daedrdev wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one of the most sought after opportunities in prison. And the state can't afford to pay them fully. Considering they want to do it, and the state already pays a huge amount to house prisoners, its not that insane

> It's one of the most sought after opportunities in prison. "In prison" is doing a lot of work there. > And the state can't afford to pay them fully. Then the state can't afford to be on fire. An externality that isn't accounted for. > Considering they want to do it, and the state already pays a huge amount to house prisoners, its not that insane. I'm really shocked to hear someone just casually say slavery in the U…

yeah, I expect there are some foundational differences in world view at play.

IMO, its not slavery because it is 100% optional. It is a restricted privilege that prisoners actively seek and compete for.

It is sought after because it is an improvement over the alternative. I'm honestly unsure how this can be framed as a negative.

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