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LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

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Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#241

Post by mulmen »

Dalewyn wrote: post #18
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14

With much of California, Texas and Florida property damage is concentrated where folks built where they shouldn’t have [1]. (At times nudged on by subsidised insurance [2].) Is that true in this case, too? (Being so close to LA, it doesn’t strike me that it could be.) If not, is my general thesis off? [1] https://www.npr.org/2023/11/06/1204923950/arizona-california... [2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article…

Deserts are generally uninhabitable by their very nature, but these persistent fires are primarily due to lack of proper underbrush care and other preventative measures. California fires are a classic case of "We tried nothing and we're out of ideas!" , speaking as a former Californian I honestly think the faster solution at this point is for enough of the state to burn down that pretending the problem doesn't exist…

This is wrong. California may not do enough to mitigate fire damage but they are certainly doing more than nothing.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#242

Post by mulmen »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #238
mulmen wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the source link it's hard to tell if these prisoners are even working voluntarily. Prisoners can be enslaved under the 13th amendment.

They are volunteering and usually get time reduced for doing so.

I'm still uneasy about it. They're in a vulnerable position and the alternative is unpleasant because of the same people offering the "opportunity". The pay is only legal because they're prisoners. If it was a fair wage I'd be more comfortable although still uneasy.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#243

Post by gruez »

sbohacek wrote: post #163

The relative humidity is 0.33 [1]. The previous lowest recorded relative humidity was 0.36 in Needles CA and Iran [2] [1] https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=KSMO [2] https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/world-record-low-humidity-...

What causes the humidity to be so low? Is the fire lowering the humidity? Or the lower humidity causing the fire?

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#244

Post by kccqzy »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #53
xoa wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To start with the last first, I would argue your general (and not uncommon) thesis is off in one key respect: it's not primarily (though in some percentage it may be) a matter of people building where they shouldn't have per se, but that they built what they shouldn't have where they did. Ie, it's 100% feasible as a matter of architecture/engineering/construction to build a structure that will shrug off a Cat 5 hurri…

Are there estimates for the cost of fireproofing Californian construction?

The problem with fireproofing one building in a fire-prone area is that neighboring buildings that aren't fireproof will build, and they will release toxic substances that make your fireproof building toxic.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#245

Post by autoexec »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #154
segasaturn wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great question, lets take a look at the 2024-2025 budget sheet for LA City: https://cao.lacity.gov/budget/summary/2024-25%20Budget%20Sum... (This PDF is great, props to whoever made it for making it so easy and accessible for normal people to read.) If you look at the pie chart on Page 11, you will see that by far the largest slice of the pie is the police budget. It's 45% of LA County's entire budget, totalling almo…

Crime is rampant, cut the police budget. I hear ya'.

Drastically cutting the police budget is almost certainly a good idea. The problem is that you can't just count everything you take from the police budget as extra money because even though the police aren't able to competently do a lot of the work they are currently being utilized for somebody still needs to do that work and they also have to be paid. At least initially it would require an investment to get a better agency to start handling that stuff.

That said, I'm sure there is plenty of opportunity to cut waste too and in addition to slashing the police budget a great way to recover some tax money being burned by the police would be to clean up the department so that taxpayers aren't on the hook for the millions spent in lawsuits generated by their repeated abuses, screw ups, workplace injustices, etc. Much of that actually would be free money.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#246

Post by throwup238 »

mulmen wrote: post #242
s1artibartfast wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are volunteering and usually get time reduced for doing so.

I'm still uneasy about it. They're in a vulnerable position and the alternative is unpleasant because of the same people offering the "opportunity". The pay is only legal because they're prisoners. If it was a fair wage I'd be more comfortable although still uneasy.

Almost everyone in California felt uneasy about it after the 2018-2020 fires. In 2021 the governor signed a retroactive law that allowed nonviolent offenders serving less than 8 years to expunge their records if they served as firefighters while incarcerated. I’d prefer they get paid at least minimum wage anyway, but they’re better off than most other prisoners because the expungement means their background checks can come back clean for any job, not just firefighting.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#247

Post by Dalewyn »

linotype wrote: post #37
Dalewyn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deserts are generally uninhabitable by their very nature, but these persistent fires are primarily due to lack of proper underbrush care and other preventative measures. California fires are a classic case of "We tried nothing and we're out of ideas!" , speaking as a former Californian I honestly think the faster solution at this point is for enough of the state to burn down that pretending the problem doesn't exist…

As a current Californian we really don’t need that right now.

I'm speaking of the reality of man. The path of least resistance will be the path that is taken, and so far it (apparently) makes more sense to cry "Climate Change!" than actually do something about preventing these fires.

If it takes enough of the state burning down for another path to gain lesser resistance, then so be it. That is certainly going to happen if California keeps going down the same path. I'm certainly not pleased that a piece of my childhood is burning down in unprecedented terms.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#248

Post by rafram »

> With the fires still largely unconfined, and no sign of letup from the winds spreading the blazes, the loss of JPL is looking increasingly likely.

This is unsourced conjecture. If JPL actually burned, it would be a tragedy, but there's nothing to suggest that a massive, fenced, landscaped facility with a fire station literally at its gate [1] is in any real danger.

[1]: https://maps.app.goo.gl/B1F9ULKFrs7KvQa7A

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#249

Post by mullingitover »

mulmen wrote: post #242
s1artibartfast wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are volunteering and usually get time reduced for doing so.

I'm still uneasy about it. They're in a vulnerable position and the alternative is unpleasant because of the same people offering the "opportunity". The pay is only legal because they're prisoners. If it was a fair wage I'd be more comfortable although still uneasy.

California voters had a question before them in this election of whether or not to ban the practice of slavery, and they voted to keep practicing slavery.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#250

Post by nradov »

cameldrv wrote: post #144
ravenstine wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand how SoCal and California residents in general find the the state's response to wildfires in the last decade to be acceptable. Not only have fire departments seen cutbacks, but so has the forestry needed for preventative measures. What really bugs me is what I find to be a disinterest and lack of belief in vastly expanding the fleet of water dropping aircraft. Letting fires burn to the extent…

Buying more firefighting equipment is like building a dam higher and higher every year as the reservoir fills up, instead of letting it drain out gradually. The natural cycle in California is for there to be periodic fires, but due to the policy of suppression, they haven't happened for 70 years or more, so now when they do, they are these massive infernos. Better and better fire suppression tech over the years that…

That's not quite what's going on with these particular fires. They weren't caused by excessive fire suppression. Most of the terrain involved is chaparral rather than forest. The previous two years had relatively high rainfall which caused a lot of fast brush growth. This season has had much less rainfall so everything dried out, creating tinderbox conditions. In those areas we have to rely more on clearing defensible space around structures.

https://youtu.be/gunenpZ5JuE

The forest management issues are valid but apply more to other parts of the state.

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