Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

theregister.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 691 posts

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#151

Post by fatbird »

ravenstine wrote: post #88
segasaturn wrote: post #51

Los Angeles Fire Department funding was cut by over $23M only a few months ago. The fires are currently being fought by a skeleton crew of remaining fire fighters and volunteers. Can't say if that funding would have prevented it, but cutting it definitely has not helped. Source: https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/08/los-angeles-fires-m... Edit: Changing a word, "gutted" -> "cut"

I really don't understand how SoCal and California residents in general find the the state's response to wildfires in the last decade to be acceptable. Not only have fire departments seen cutbacks, but so has the forestry needed for preventative measures. What really bugs me is what I find to be a disinterest and lack of belief in vastly expanding the fleet of water dropping aircraft. Letting fires burn to the extent…

California has a problem with overly aggressive fire suppression over the last 100 years creating a buildup of extra-flammable burnable areas. Literally, you need to let a certain amount of burning go on, continuously over time, so that the burnable areas aren't over-fueled tinderboxes that get very hot, very fast.

Part of this is using controlled burns to mitigate the buildup, another thing that's been under-resourced in California.

I had a discussion at a B and B with a guy who flew F-16s in the USAF, then U2s once they were going to promote him out of flying. He'd just left the service and had retrained to fly Grumman water bombers for Calfire. The problem as I've described it is apparently well-known in the wildfire fighting community in Californa.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#152

Post by harmmonica »

gamblor956 wrote: post #83
earnestinger wrote: post #77

I see there are three separate fires several km apart. How do they start so synchronously?

They didn't. Palisades started Tuesday morning in someone's backyard. The Eaton fire started last evening near one of the campgrounds. The Hearst fire started late last night around 10pm (suspected cause was a vehicle fire from an accident that spread to the side of the road).

Hey there, do you have a source for the backyard? I'm not questioning it. I'd like to know the origin and what actually occurred in that yard to cause it.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#153

Post by kristjansson »

trhway wrote: post #52
jkaptur wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://wifire.ucsd.edu/firis-in-depth

they use manned planes for monitoring - very costly and not scalable. And there is no "water-bombing" drone fleet. The manned "water-bombers" are extremely expensive, there is only small number of them and they actually carry pretty small amount of water as they are mostly helicopters or retrofitted passenger planes.

The problem is not that the water bombers are retrofitted, the problem is that water is heavy, so you're up against the physics of flight. An aircraft loaded to its max weight with water (or water-like material like retardant) is going to look empty, visually. Even e.g. a cargo 747 has ~750 m3 (=~200k gal h2o) of cargo space, but 112000 kg (=~30k gal h2o) of payload, so one could only fill ~1/6 of the cargo volume with water.

A drone is up against the same physical constraints - water is heavy, and you need a lot of it to have a material impact on a fire, even one you've caught early.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#154

Post by JKCalhoun »

segasaturn wrote: post #145
nradov wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which other fat targets should local governments cut? Please be specific and quantitative.

Great question, lets take a look at the 2024-2025 budget sheet for LA City: https://cao.lacity.gov/budget/summary/2024-25%20Budget%20Sum... (This PDF is great, props to whoever made it for making it so easy and accessible for normal people to read.) If you look at the pie chart on Page 11, you will see that by far the largest slice of the pie is the police budget. It's 45% of LA County's entire budget, totalling almo…

Crime is rampant, cut the police budget. I hear ya'.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#155

Post by hx8 »

arcticbull wrote: post #142
rvnx wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Very interesting info you found!) It seems to be a great way to reengage in the community and feel useful as a human being (and see people being grateful to you). Not so sure the $5 are the driver here. Better than watching a cellmate all day.

Slave labor (which is permitted under the 13th amendment as punishment for a crime) undercuts the wages that you would pay in the market hurting both the prisoners (as they aren't paid appropriately or given appropriate medical care for injuries, etc) and the would-be non-prison firefighters. Worse, you generally can't be a firefighter once you get out of prison as they don't hire ex-convicts. Consequently you're not…

I'm not informed on the specifics on these cases, but I generally view that (many/most) prisoners have a debt to society for breaking the social contract and serving the community by making it safer is a generally positive activity. I'm happy to adjust my opinion on this topic if provided evidence that inmate firefighters either are unsafe for the community or have worse outcomes than other inmates.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#156

Post by rurp »

arcticbull wrote: post #142
rvnx wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Very interesting info you found!) It seems to be a great way to reengage in the community and feel useful as a human being (and see people being grateful to you). Not so sure the $5 are the driver here. Better than watching a cellmate all day.

Slave labor (which is permitted under the 13th amendment as punishment for a crime) undercuts the wages that you would pay in the market hurting both the prisoners (as they aren't paid appropriately or given appropriate medical care for injuries, etc) and the would-be non-prison firefighters. Worse, you generally can't be a firefighter once you get out of prison as they don't hire ex-convicts. Consequently you're not…

Yep, and just to drive home the point the official motto of the California Conservation Corps, which does a lot fire fighting and prevention in the state, is “Hard work, low pay, miserable conditions, and more.”[0]

I get that the motto is somewhat tongue in cheek but still, slave labor does tend to distort markets.

[0]https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/natio...

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#157

Post by rurp »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #129
rvnx wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Very interesting info you found!) It seems to be a great way to reengage in the community and feel useful as a human being (and see people being grateful to you). Not so sure the $5 are the driver here. Better than watching a cellmate all day.

I wonder if they have favorable consideration when applying to fire departments after they get out.

It's often the opposite, where their conviction bars them from even applying for a job.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#158

Post by kristjansson »

tanseydavid wrote: post #65
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> house fire would easily pop-up even from tens of km. A acre size fire - it would pop-up even on coarse grain IR from space Both of these produce lots of smoke. Neither can be doused by drones.

>> Neither can be doused by drones. Identification only by drone. Then the dousing is done by conventional means, but dispatched locally.

Detection is not the issue, fires in populated (i.e. costly to burn) areas are dispatched very quickly. All the LA fires were on Watch Duty at 1-5 acres in size. The problem is fighting them at that size, when they're on vertiginous terrain, and winds keep conventional (i.e. manned) aircraft grounded.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#159

Post by defrost »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #154
segasaturn wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great question, lets take a look at the 2024-2025 budget sheet for LA City: https://cao.lacity.gov/budget/summary/2024-25%20Budget%20Sum... (This PDF is great, props to whoever made it for making it so easy and accessible for normal people to read.) If you look at the pie chart on Page 11, you will see that by far the largest slice of the pie is the police budget. It's 45% of LA County's entire budget, totalling almo…

Crime is rampant, cut the police budget. I hear ya'.

The question is whether quality of life can be improved in the city with a better allocation of the $2 billion dollars.

Some should go to policing, yes, community policing should increase, working the stats should decrease, dedicated mental health professionals should be funded and replace a good number of police interactions, etc.

This is a large and complex topic that deserves better than ankle deep engagement.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#160

Post by rvnx »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #154
segasaturn wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great question, lets take a look at the 2024-2025 budget sheet for LA City: https://cao.lacity.gov/budget/summary/2024-25%20Budget%20Sum... (This PDF is great, props to whoever made it for making it so easy and accessible for normal people to read.) If you look at the pie chart on Page 11, you will see that by far the largest slice of the pie is the police budget. It's 45% of LA County's entire budget, totalling almo…

Crime is rampant, cut the police budget. I hear ya'.

El Salvador fixed the crime issue with weapons and a strict policy, but in California it may not be such widely accepted.
Post reply on HN