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Microsoft disguises Bing as Google to fool inattentive searchers

pcworld.com

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Re: Microsoft disguises Bing as Google to fool inattentive searchers

#221

Post by CobrastanJorji »

pests wrote: post #156
tbrownaw wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Disclamer - I owned a restaurant that gave Pepsi products to customers who explicitly ask for a Coke. I have in fact heard "coke" used as a generic before. Just like google, kleenex, champaign, cheddar, ...

This example was doomed from the start because of this fact. A lot of the US south uses the generic "coke."* It is not uncommon for this conversation to play out: "Can I get a coke?" "Sure, which kind?" "A Coke" (or a pepsi, or fanta) In my neck of the woods we call it "pop" which always sounded strange to me in isolation. * As famously depicted in the 2003 Harvard Dialect Survey.

That's what makes it work as a metaphor, I think. Our former Microsoft friend above says that when people ask for "google search," what they mean is "any search engine," just as people in Georgia say "coke" when they mean "a soda." You say the right response is "sure, what kind," but the Microsoft solution is to serve them a Pepsi that they disguised to resemble a Coca-Cola at first glance.

Re: Microsoft disguises Bing as Google to fool inattentive searchers

#222

Post by 9Ljdg6p8ZSzejt »

recursive wrote: post #123
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #39

I started a new job where I have to use windows, and more than once I didn’t realize I was using bing until I went to turn on verbatim and it wasn’t an option. Side note, I miss search engines from 20 years ago, I can’t believe it’s gotten this bad.

Kagi is pretty good.

I love being able to raise, lower, and remove sites across all my searches. No need to include things such as -stackoverflow for every search. I can choose to have it appear only when there are not quality results by lowering its priority.

Re: Microsoft disguises Bing as Google to fool inattentive searchers

#223

Post by extraduder_ire »

meltyness wrote: post #107
cynicalpeace wrote: post #55

I'm surprised more startups don't just copy the most famous landing page of all time.

I was wondering why Google hadn't replaced 'I'm Feeling Lucky' with something to do with LLMs, or just added an LLM-generate option. I came to the conclusion that they're in corporate denialism over the whole thing. They'd be happier if their finger slipped and made Anthropic and OpenAI vanish until they could resurface and capture the market. Possibly not a great strategy. It seems all of their years of letting the…

The "I'm feeling lucky" button has been obsolete for over a decade, with the introduction of search-as-you-type on google.com. Clicking on it still takes you to a random google thing, usually doodles.

It's a branding thing at this point. If it still worked, it'd be interesting to know if what they consider the highest ranked result is the topmost placed ad or the first result that's not an ad.

Re: Microsoft disguises Bing as Google to fool inattentive searchers

#224

Post by meltyness »

extraduder_ire wrote: post #223
meltyness wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was wondering why Google hadn't replaced 'I'm Feeling Lucky' with something to do with LLMs, or just added an LLM-generate option. I came to the conclusion that they're in corporate denialism over the whole thing. They'd be happier if their finger slipped and made Anthropic and OpenAI vanish until they could resurface and capture the market. Possibly not a great strategy. It seems all of their years of letting the…

The "I'm feeling lucky" button has been obsolete for over a decade, with the introduction of search-as-you-type on google.com. Clicking on it still takes you to a random google thing, usually doodles. It's a branding thing at this point. If it still worked, it'd be interesting to know if what they consider the highest ranked result is the topmost placed ad or the first result that's not an ad.

It still works, you can click on something non-focusable like the background or hit Esc and still get the "first page" thing. Like a touch interface.

Funny that's already so intuitive for how touch interfaces works, I guess it would take maybe a week to change but forever to decide what specifically precisely should be done, so if it's not something epoch-defining, world-changing and comparable to search itself, then maybe just leave it, lest you make a mistake that half the customers likes.

Re: Microsoft disguises Bing as Google to fool inattentive searchers

#225

Post by mrayycombi »

tim333 wrote: post #211
mrayycombi wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has been breaking the law for years and was found guilty of antitrust violations, among others. Bill Gates, the friendly philanthropist, was/is a business criminal. His company hasn't changed. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/microsoft-agrees-pay-20-milli... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_C... . They waged a war of "FUD" against open-source software. https://lxer.com/module/newswir…

Technically "Microsoft to pay $20 million in civil penalties" doesn't actually make the CEO a criminal in the legal sense. Not saying he's a saint who's never done anything wrong but who is?

Wow, everyone breaks the law sometimes....

Gosh. I guess we're all robber barons at heart.

I guess when PG&E legally ignores requirements to trim electrical lines and people die, well the CEO didn't get any criminal charges, so the dead can be comforted that being burned alive wasn't done by a "criminal" quote un quote.

We all cause people to die by our greed... sometimes.

Re: Microsoft disguises Bing as Google to fool inattentive searchers

#226

Post by permo-w »

zb3 wrote: post #46
ballenf wrote: post #8

I bet this is 100x+ more effective at keeping people on Bing than anything else MS has tried. Same idea as knock-off brands with labels and designs inspired by the name brand. People may eventually realize they're not on Google, but probably only after being not displeased in Bing's results. If they have a bad experience, oh well, they were planning on using google anyway.

Nothing can keep me on Bing unless the results improve. Or am I the only one who regularily gives Bing a try only to find out the results are irrelevant?

yeah I also did this again recently. Google was getting too heavy-handed with their impossible captchas, so I switched to Bing for a while, once again thinking that it can't be as bad as I remembered. honestly it was okay for a while, but Bing - and every other alternative I've tried - still really struggles with any query where a vital part of the meaning is captured by the structure of the sentence rather than the keywords alone.

Re: Microsoft disguises Bing as Google to fool inattentive searchers

#227

Post by Incipient »

mrayycombi wrote: post #193
Incipient wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of big business is built on varying degrees of fraud, bribery, nepotism, anti-competitive behaviour, etc. It's just how business is done. If you don't get a leg up on your competitors, they'll get one up on you.

A sad excuse for criminal conduct. Believe it or not there are lots of law abiding businesses, and companies that compete on quality, service, and price. And even if that were an extreme minority (and I don't think it is) we should praise them as models instead of resigning ourselves to mediocre businesses using illegal tactics to control a market for super profits.

I never said it was good.

I'm pretty awful at business because I always fix my mistakes for free and don't hide them behind fake "scope change" arguments that so many other vendors do.

I'm just saying the reality of it.

Also I don't think nepotism/giving work to friends is actually criminal in a lot of cases?

Re: Microsoft disguises Bing as Google to fool inattentive searchers

#228

Post by bhelkey »

riiii wrote: post #157
bhelkey wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I owned a restaurant that gave Pepsi products to customers who explicitly ask for a Coke. Did you tell them they were drinking Pepsi or ask some variant of "Is Pepsi okay?"

Are you from the PR Disaster Mitigation Department trying to find justification for this?

What are you talking about?

A pretty common interaction is:

Me: Can I have a coke?

Waiter: Is pepsi okay?

Me: That's fine

Waiter: brings a Pepsi

It seems that the above commentor doesn't have this exchange but instead silently substitutes.

Re: Microsoft disguises Bing as Google to fool inattentive searchers

#229

Post by mrayycombi »

Incipient wrote: post #227
mrayycombi wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A sad excuse for criminal conduct. Believe it or not there are lots of law abiding businesses, and companies that compete on quality, service, and price. And even if that were an extreme minority (and I don't think it is) we should praise them as models instead of resigning ourselves to mediocre businesses using illegal tactics to control a market for super profits.

I never said it was good. I'm pretty awful at business because I always fix my mistakes for free and don't hide them behind fake "scope change" arguments that so many other vendors do. I'm just saying the reality of it. Also I don't think nepotism/giving work to friends is actually criminal in a lot of cases?

Nepotism is a kind of corruption. It might be quite legal in some cases - private parties I think.

In some cases not as much.

It represents the appearance or actuality of kick backs and favoritism for "other" non-business reasons.

Put your mistress on the payroll? Why not! Put your 'can't get a job' brother on the payroll? Why not?!

The "princeling" hire is a classic form of quid pro quo hire - you hire Bidens coke&hookers son, his dad says hi to you on the golf course.

Nothing to see here.

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