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Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

nature.com

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Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#321

Post by xnx »

Anotheroneagain wrote: post #316
xnx wrote: post #84

There is almost nothing* like sugar drinks in the natural world our bodies evolved in. Sugar drinks are about as different as tea leaves and pure cocaine. It's is no coincidence that both are refined white powders. *honey

Most of our animal relatives obtain the vast majority of their calories from fruit, that is, sugar. The tarsier is the closest one that doesn't.

Good point. Natural fruit is different from sugar drinks in a few ways: takes effort to collect and consume, contains fiber that increases satiety, and is much less sweet (even when compared to the extra sweet varieties humans have bred).

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#322

Post by batushka5 »

rauljordan2020 wrote: post #320

I'm from latam. I never saw anyone drink water growing up. Anytime you try to drink water, people label you as boring, even your parents. Whenever we go to a restaurant, the first thing you ask the waiter is "what sodas do you have?". If you're not feeling like drinking soda and want something "healthier", you ask what kinds of fruit juices they have. If you don't like the options, you settle on a hyper-sweetened tea…

And how are latam's doing? From your writeup seems to be enjoying life

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#323

Post by taeric »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #169
taeric wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused on where the quote on cigarettes comes from? Isn't in my post, is it? And you didn't address that they did find modest gains to the goals in the Seattle study. I fully agree that, on the merits, this is easy to circumvent. I further agree that this sort of tax is almost certainly regressive. Largely for the reason you give of how easy it can be to get around. The study shows that, despite that, it still…

> And you didn't address that they did find modest gains to the goals in the Seattle study. I don't have much to say, other than personally I feel it's a tacit nod to the fact they found the results they wanted from this study, because it resoundingly relies on justifying a higher sales tax and this further encourages other parts of WA to adopt it and further establish it as a form of tax revenue while trying to prov…

Ah, 2nd quote being a sibling post makes sense. I typically look at things in threads after I post, so didn't see it.

I want to stress that logically, I fully agree with your position. I am always hesitant to go with logical arguments that aren't supported empirically, though. Would love to see some critical studies that go into why this stuff isn't the case.

I can say that, at a personal level, we thought we would shift buying of juices and sodas to outside of Seattle when the law passed. We largely didn't, though. Just started getting smaller servings from places in the city. I hesitate to say we are representative, though; as we don't do that much on the sweetened side, all told. Were buying small juices for the kids, but not many of that, even.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#324

Post by Supermancho »

aziaziazi wrote: post #254
Supermancho wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a risky way of thinking to reduce every act to a moral choice. ie I could have used the energy that I burned making this post, to hand out a dollar to a homeless person. Beyond how ridiculously reductive this becomes, it's impractical. You have to have carbs for your brain to run.

I agree with peers. Doesn’t Keto (for part of the year) worked for millennia for our ancestors?

They also had carbohydrates in their diet. Meat naturally contains carbs. Pretending that the human body is misunderstood and that it worked very differently is a common pitfall of these discussions. Largely it was the same, with the amounts differing.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#325

Post by Supermancho »

peaceanwar wrote: post #257
Supermancho wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a risky way of thinking to reduce every act to a moral choice. ie I could have used the energy that I burned making this post, to hand out a dollar to a homeless person. Beyond how ridiculously reductive this becomes, it's impractical. You have to have carbs for your brain to run.

No. You dont. There are other metabolic pathways to produce glucose (or produce ketones). The other pathways ‘push’ the body more since they have to do some conversion. This ‘extra effort’ is considered to be more healthy.

Yes there are. You still need carbs and you get them (ie celery has carbs), regardless. Repetition wont convince someone arguing in bad faith, so I will bow to your religious beliefs.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#326

Post by parineum »

cluckindan wrote: post #301
parineum wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pastries also have fat though and parent was talking about enjoyment per kcal.

Fat is good for you, as long as it isn’t trans-fat. The common wisdom around cholesterol is false (the ”lipid hypothesis” is just that, a hypothesis).

Excess calories are bad for you, no matter what form they come in.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#327

Post by rroblak »

johnyzee wrote: post #309
athenot wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 15 years ago, I stopped drinking soda. Not out of a desire to be healthy or loose weight but simply because it dawned on me that for the same amount of sugar in one soft drink that I drink without any afterthought, I could enjoy a really good pastry that I can slowly savor. I do the same for fats. The way I look at it, I want to maximize the "enjoyment per kcalorie". :) More recently, I'm starting to apply this…

>I do the same for fats. The way I look at it, I want to maximize the "enjoyment per kcalorie". :) We are increasingly moving away from looking at fat as an indulgence, towards understanding it as an essential nutrient, with a large variance in fat types and their benefits. E.g. some people would avoid eating nuts, because they are high in fat, and not as tasty as something similarly fatty, like a pastry. This seems…

This. People are getting the message that "sugar is bad" but the public health messaging of "fat is bad" still lingers in many people's heads. It's sad, because as you mentioned some days are indeed essential nutrients. Especially for kids and pregnant women.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#328

Post by kart23 »

bentt wrote: post #203

Fruit smoothies are an interesting case of a "sugar beverage" which doesn't quite act how you'd think. Intuitively, you'd think that speedy ingestion of that much fructose with all its fiber obliterated in a blender could potentially cause spikes in blood glucose. However this study showed that when the fruits had seeds, like blackberries and raspberries, the glucose peak was lower with blended fruit than whole. http…

fiber isn’t ’obliterated’ in a blender, it’s only removed with juices. in juice you strain all the pulp and seeds out, smoothies retain the seeds and fiber.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#329

Post by nprateem »

mohaine wrote: post #236
nprateem wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aspartame is bad for your gut microbiome

Citation? Is this a normal soda consumption levels in humans or when feeding it to rats at some obscene rate? I'm not saying it is good for you, but we need facts not blind statements with no context.

Christ I'm not your mother. Search pubmed.

Research suggests a link to cancer. It'd be bad for your microbiome if you die.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#330

Post by dilap »

gdjskslsuhkso wrote: post #182
dilap wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd take the other side of that bet. https://imgur.com/a/4b0O4AW Prior to early 2000s when sugar consumption started going down, it was probably a reasonble guess as one of the drivers of increasing disease. But since then sugar consumption has tailed off while disease rates have continued to rise, so I don't think it's plausible anymore. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7666899/ My bet to flatten the chronic…

Are there any chains that still use tallow to fry food? I love fried food and would pay a premium for high quality oil options. Most of the time you don't know what it is, at best it's peanut (five guys). I'd much prefer avocado oil or tallow.

The only one I know of is Popeyes -- they famously never stoped frying their chicken in beef tallow. Probably unhealthy for about a million other reasons, but hey, at least it's not fried in vegetable oil!
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