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Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

nature.com

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Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#191

Post by knowitnone »

Supermancho wrote: post #186
chrisco255 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably a risky line of thinking, if you're addicted to sugar, to substitute in some other source of sugar. Best to avoid pastries, lollipops and sugary sodas.

It's a risky way of thinking to reduce every act to a moral choice. ie I could have used the energy that I burned making this post, to hand out a dollar to a homeless person. Beyond how ridiculously reductive this becomes, it's impractical. You have to have carbs for your brain to run.

no you don't. You have to have glucose for your brain to run. Understand the difference.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#192

Post by bitwize »

loeg wrote: post #158
dfltr wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sugar: The Bitter Truth" ( https://robertlustig.com/sugar-the-bitter-truth/ ) is a pretty long watch, but it's incredibly eye-opening in terms of explaining in detail exactly why our current dietary sugar intake is so damaging to our bodies. Note: Robert Lustig is a professor of pediatric endocrinology at UCSF, I promise I wouldn't ask you (the reader) to watch a long-ass youtube video unless it contained extremely…

Lustig is a crank with opinions well outside scientific consensus.

This is one of those areas where scientific consensus needs to catch up with the alarming facts that have been discovered. Scientific consensus was against handwashing for doctors and plate tectonics, and it still is in favor of "clearing amyloid plaques will totally fix Alzheimer's", but the facts just keep on being what they be.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#193

Post by thereisnospork »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #124
bityard wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed that people who want to deny that the extremely high carbohydrate content of the typical western diet is the major factor for runaway rates of diabetes and cardiovascular disease like to label the "bad" food as "junk food" or "ultra-processed food." But we never get an explanation from them as to what exactly is IN the junk food or ultra-processed food that causes the disease.

Well, I can answer that. It's not always about a certain boogeyman inside it, but whether it makes it easy to overeat and whether it pays its rent in nutritional content. Consider potato chips. Even if they have zero saturated fat, the issue most people have with them is that they are hyperpalatable and low nutritional value compared to their calorie density. Combine fat and salt and certain textures, and we can't st…

Your comment kind of illustrates his point though, there's a complete lack of mechanistic empiricism[0] in the discussion of nutrition. What is the metric for 'eas[iness] to overeat and whether it pays its rent in nutritional content.'? I agree with the premise, but it is ill-defined.

e.g. consider: A baked potato, with salt and butter vs. an equivalent weight of potato chips. They are essentially identical post-mastication, except one is 'junk food' and 'ultra-processed' and the other is quintessential home cooking. What system do I use to rank them if they are in fact not identical?

[0] What (or combination of whats) at a structural/chemical level in a food causes the harm, and by what biochemical/psychological/psychosomatic pathway(s) does said harm occur?

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#194

Post by eru »

davoneus wrote: post #188
malfist wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citric acid and phosphoric acid likely have the same impact on your teeth and no impact on your bones and kidneys. Acids and bases on your diet have very little to do with what pH is exposed to the rest of your body. Your stomach is probably more acid than anything you eat or drink, and your lungs and kidneys tightly regulate the pH of the blood. If your diet is effecting your blood pH, your probably already on death…

Intuitively, I suspect any acid is bad for your teeth. But I see that statement primarily from Dentists, and their track record in a number of areas is less than stellar. Prime example: Flossing and 6 month checkups. Neither of which have good scientific evidence, despite their widespread promotion.

From anecdotal evidence: when I stop flossing for a few days, my gums start bleeding.

Not sure what suspicious extra super powers your dentist suggests flossing has?

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#195

Post by eru »

wil421 wrote: post #116
brailsafe wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be the guy that I assume most people are sick of by this point, and recommend experimenting with dropping the additives in exchange for higher quality coffee if you can afford it (it's usually not much more per cup). At effectively zero calories, after some period of time you'll get used to it and recalibrate your sense of sweetness to the point where sugary drinks and coffee are much less palatable

Just to add a bit, we bought a Breville espresso and grinder. I only use some whole milk to make my coffee and no sugar. My wife uses a little agave syrup and skips most of the milk.

Milk has a bit of milk sugar in it. So you get some sweetness that way.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#196

Post by eru »

znpy wrote: post #123
SoftTalker wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly can't tell much difference between expensive coffee and Maxwell House. But in general I've never nerded out over coffee, wine, bread, cheese, whiskey, or any other food or beverage. I don't add sugar to my coffee either.

Cheese is worth it, a bit. First because it’s way leas of a bullshit industry when compared to wine for example, and also because (particularly if you’re in europe) there is so much variety of cheese at overall an affordable price. And you largely don’t need tools or fancy accessories. If anything, you could get something nice to paid it with :)

Here in Singapore cheese is a lot more expensive than in Europe, alas.

I can definitely tell the differences between different coffees or teas or bread etc. The range for wine isn't that large. And that's not just in 'quality', but also just in less variety than eg (craft) beers or breads.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#197

Post by eru »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #119
neom wrote: post #39

Interesting. I think folks in the comments here maybe missed this paper is way more about the beverages part making it important. The research is around sugar sweetened beverages (SSBs). If I'm reading it right, the SSBs have a differentmetabolic effect. "Due to their liquid form, SSBs are rapidly consumed and digested, resulting in lower satiety, higher caloric intake and weight gain. High doses of rapidly digested…

I'm always glad for more hard evidence, but this exact reasoning has been "common sense", or something to that tune, my entire life. Maybe not every individual resulting issue, but that liquid sugar absorbs more rapidly and as such is worse that an equivalent amount of sugar in a more solid meal.

It's also a lot easier and quicker to drink the juice from, say, 6 oranges than to eat 6 oranges.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#198

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

athenot wrote: post #60
neom wrote: post #39

Interesting. I think folks in the comments here maybe missed this paper is way more about the beverages part making it important. The research is around sugar sweetened beverages (SSBs). If I'm reading it right, the SSBs have a differentmetabolic effect. "Due to their liquid form, SSBs are rapidly consumed and digested, resulting in lower satiety, higher caloric intake and weight gain. High doses of rapidly digested…

About 15 years ago, I stopped drinking soda. Not out of a desire to be healthy or loose weight but simply because it dawned on me that for the same amount of sugar in one soft drink that I drink without any afterthought, I could enjoy a really good pastry that I can slowly savor. I do the same for fats. The way I look at it, I want to maximize the "enjoyment per kcalorie". :) More recently, I'm starting to apply this…

When I stopped drinking soda (about ten years ago), my stomach immediately started feeling better.

I will sometimes have a ginger ale, from time to time, when I'm eating out, and usually won't finish it, but I otherwise, don't drink soda, anymore.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#199

Post by drivebycomment »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #169
taeric wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused on where the quote on cigarettes comes from? Isn't in my post, is it? And you didn't address that they did find modest gains to the goals in the Seattle study. I fully agree that, on the merits, this is easy to circumvent. I further agree that this sort of tax is almost certainly regressive. Largely for the reason you give of how easy it can be to get around. The study shows that, despite that, it still…

> And you didn't address that they did find modest gains to the goals in the Seattle study. I don't have much to say, other than personally I feel it's a tacit nod to the fact they found the results they wanted from this study, because it resoundingly relies on justifying a higher sales tax and this further encourages other parts of WA to adopt it and further establish it as a form of tax revenue while trying to prov…

> Which is why I defer to my anac-data, which admittedly biased illustrates that its just not effective but is entirely moot without addressing the core of the issue and principal of the matter as a whole: body autonomy.

Can you explain how sugar tax is an issue about body autonomy ? As far as I can see, you are free to continue putting sugary water into your body. Is the argument that even a small increase in tax is an encroach upon bodily autonomy ? Do you consider farm subsidies (e.g. maintaining US corn production) as a bodily autonomy issue then, since it lowers the cost of corn / fructose and making them available in more food ?

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#200

Post by mcny »

cwbrandsma wrote: post #100
SoftTalker wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly can't tell much difference between expensive coffee and Maxwell House. But in general I've never nerded out over coffee, wine, bread, cheese, whiskey, or any other food or beverage. I don't add sugar to my coffee either.

I can easily tell the difference between the two, but I really don't care so long as the coffee is brewed well. I still like Maxwell House Black Silk, but at home I grind my own beans and brew in a French Press. What I don't like is "Church Coffee", where it has brewed within an inch of its life and is the darkest, most bitter/burned flavor that ever existed.

The best coffee I have ever had was from a coworker's French press. (:
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