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BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

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Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#91

Post by colmvp »

Produce wrote: post #33
slurgfest wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If some black girls want to code, what possible reason do you have to object? Let them. Leave them alone, if you aren't supportive. That's all you need to do. The group isn't preventing white people from coding. If you want white people to code, you can make your own group. And it will fly really well anywhere in the South and many places in the West and you won't have to say anything about how it's only for white pe…

So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders? Would it be fair that one segment of the impoverished get special treatment? Surely it would be better to organise something like PoorPeopleCode, since that is the segment of society which, in fact, needs help - poor people. Who gives a crap about race or gender? It's bigger than that.

'So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders?'

Do white guys need more help in America? Statistically, white men have a higher chance at being well... anything. Actor. Model. CEOs. Executives. Managers. Interracial marriages. Politicians. Lack of racial profiling. White men getting worked up about this is like rich people getting worked up about poor people getting welfare.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#92

Post by wpietri »

IanDrake wrote: post #12
dinkumthinkum wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? This is one of the hardest hit economic demographics in the country. I don't think targeting it to be specifically for them is bad; in fact I think it is probably best. This demographics tends to get lost in the "need more women in tech" crowd.

>Why not? I agree - IF we can also agree that groups for "White Women", "Bald Hispanic Men Under 40", etc... are also allowed. Society needs to come to a consensus on this. Either there is a useful purpose to segmenting private groups by age, gender, race, income, etc... or there isn't. If there is a valid purpose, then we should all agree that all possible combination of these factors are equally valid. The end resu…

Society does pretty much have a consensus on this. If you're working to reduce privilege and increase fairness, some selectivity based on race, gender, and sexual orientation is allowed.

So a group for helping women is considered cricket, but one focused on white women probably wouldn't be, because white people are already privileged enough.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#93

Post by wpietri »

unit_testing wrote: post #77
unit_testing wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are poor, uneducated whites less worthy of help than wealthy, affluent blacks? If you believe so, you're a bigot. Also, are poor, uneducated whites less worthy of help than poor, uneducated blacks?

I can't reply to your comment, so I'll comment here. Let's think about some poor, uneducated white kids living in a trailer park without an internet connection. What should they feel when they hear of programs like this? "I'm not important enough to help, because people who look like me already have good jobs?" How should they feel about the myriad of programs and scholarships which explicitly exclude them? At this p…

> being a poor white person is more difficult than being a poor black person

Evidence? I'd especially like to see a video of you visiting the trailer parks and public housing projects of America and asking people if they agree with that. I'm not sure which group would take more exception to it.

Regardless, as a former poor white person, I think it's bullshit.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#94

Post by clarke78 »

Produce wrote: post #33
slurgfest wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If some black girls want to code, what possible reason do you have to object? Let them. Leave them alone, if you aren't supportive. That's all you need to do. The group isn't preventing white people from coding. If you want white people to code, you can make your own group. And it will fly really well anywhere in the South and many places in the West and you won't have to say anything about how it's only for white pe…

So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders? Would it be fair that one segment of the impoverished get special treatment? Surely it would be better to organise something like PoorPeopleCode, since that is the segment of society which, in fact, needs help - poor people. Who gives a crap about race or gender? It's bigger than that.

100% agree. Continuing to create division with gender or race biased events/groups doesn't seem helpful. The greater issue here is the disadvantaged at large. Why continue to divide our efforts in smaller niche segments? What's wrong with allowing anyone to join in on these sessions?

A lot of these groups, and their titles, just seem to further stigmatize the segments they're trying to help. True equality will only come when access to information and opportunity are available globally and without bias. Drawing lines in the sand isn't the way to go about change.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#95

Post by felipemnoa »

JPKab wrote: post #22
peterwwillis wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying that charities should do a breakdown of all the demographics in a given area, and spend exactly the same resources on getting them all help? I wasn't aware that charities and non-profits were supposed to be so generalized. I thought targeting specific issues was part of the point, to have a greater chance at solving at least one problem. The net effect of this organization's efforts will be to elevat…

There should be zero targeting of ethnicity. Excluding people based on ethnicity is wrong, no matter what the ethnic group is. And what makes you so sure that black men would relate to black women better than they would men of other ethnic backgrounds? Which is the bigger divider, gender or ethnicity? The point I am making isn't that this isn't a good thing, because as I said in my original post, helping any disadvan…

Look, it's simple. There has been an imbalance for a long time. One group is lagging behind because of hundreds of years of slavery, discrimination and oppression. Being a black women means that she was being doubly oppressed, one for being black and the other for being a women. What is happening in this particular example is that somebody is trying to fix the injustice that happened against a specific demographic for hundreds of years.

Even though slavery and "separate but equal" are gone, and finally women have the right to vote, the effects of all that oppression is still being felt because of inertia (i.e. they are trapped in a cycle of poverty). The healing from all that oppression is happening slowly and some people are just trying to speed it up.

At least I think that is what is happening here.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#96

Post by colmvp »

rmc wrote: post #57

This is great, and good for them. However as often happens, people are now complaining that they shouldn't have a programme just for black girls since it's racist/sexist. It's not. People/groups who need help and are disadvantaged, should be helped. If 2 babies are born, and one is very healthy and one is very sick, we should give the sick one more medical attention than the healthy one. We should not give everyone t…

'Everyone having the same chance' is what happens when we get rid of racism/sexism (we're not there yet).

Indeed. Someone wrote a post about how being born white and male in America is like starting a character in an RPG with boosted stats.

It does have a hint of truth to it. There is literally nothing a white man can't do in America whereas other races have significantly less chance of achieving the same success, especially Asian Americans.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#97

Post by TwiztidK »

sp332 wrote: post #48
TwiztidK wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it seems that if every thing is going to be broken down demographically to this extent, there will have to be: Black Girls Code, Hispanic Girls Code, Native American Girls Code, and then additional groups for minority males. At that point it seems to get kind of ridiculous as every potential minority-gender combination will need its own group which just seems kind of inefficient to me. I could be horribly wrong…

A lot of hacker groups are already effectively "whites code" or even "white men code". So "black girls code" is just actually just as specific as some existing groups.

I'm suggesting that any group that limits itself accoring to race or gender is unaccecptable.

If these hacker groups are white only, then we need to break down the barriers that are keeping minorities and women out rather than starting new groups and self-segregating.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#98

Post by IanDrake »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #70
IanDrake wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why not? I agree - IF we can also agree that groups for "White Women", "Bald Hispanic Men Under 40", etc... are also allowed. Society needs to come to a consensus on this. Either there is a useful purpose to segmenting private groups by age, gender, race, income, etc... or there isn't. If there is a valid purpose, then we should all agree that all possible combination of these factors are equally valid. The end resu…

But this is nothing more than naive pedantry. There is a very large economic demographic in this country that is apparently at a disadvantage. It's called black girls/females. It's not bald hispanic athiests, or freckle-faced Irish mormons or celebrity scientologists that have blond hair. There is a real problem that can potentially be solved. You can play this game if you want but there is quite clearly a qualitativ…

>There is a very large economic demographic in this country that is apparently at a disadvantage. It's called black girls/females.

The only point in your reply that I understand is that you believe black women are poor, therefore typical social rules regarding segregation don't apply.

>If calling the group "Black Girls Can Code" allows the group to raise more money...

By this logic you are OK with a group called "White boys can code" IF it helped that group raise money? And why not, these could be boys from Appalachia who have Mountain Dew and Snickers for dinner every night.

I think this is a conversation worth having. At some point we need to go beyond convenient stereo types and get to the root of the problem.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#99

Post by king_jester »

vijayr wrote: post #53
_pius wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read your rant a few times and I've yet to see your point. Charities should be based on need and helping the greater good, not on playing favorites. This isn't a charity. A black woman started this program to address a legitimate need that she saw. Others who agreed with her gave her money to do it. Where is the bad in this? How is this anything but a net positive for the world?

I understand where the GP is coming from. Teaching kids to code is an absolutely nice thing to do. But segregating based on color or gender or caste is never a good idea. What if a poor white or Asian or Hispanic kid wants to join this class? They'll be turned away? To give an example: India is a deeply divided society, based on caste/religion etc. In many educational institutions, huge percentage of seats are reserv…

> But segregating based on color or gender or caste is never a good idea. What if a poor white or Asian or Hispanic kid wants to join this class?

Charities are free to focus on where the most need is based on the limited resources they have. There is a significant lack of women of color in US tech circles, so there is nothing wrong with a charity targeting that. Charity by definition won't be able to focus on everyone.

> To give an example: India is a deeply divided society, based on caste/religion etc.

This is a US-based charity targeting people of color living in the US. Comparisons between the US and India are not helpful here.

> Charities should never ever be based on color, gender, caste etc. Charity should be based on need and need only.

This is nonsense. Those that would benefit the most from this charity program already face discrimination and lack of opportunity BECAUSE OF their race and gender.

> It would be even more awesome, if she just taught all kids, instead of just black kids.

It would also be awesome if social barriers didn't exist at all and this kind of program wouldn't be needed, but we don't live in that world. That said, this program is absolutely doing good work and is right to target who needs this kind of assistance the most.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#100

Post by Produce »

colmvp wrote: post #91
Produce wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders? Would it be fair that one segment of the impoverished get special treatment? Surely it would be better to organise something like PoorPeopleCode, since that is the segment of society which, in fact, needs help - poor people. Who gives a crap about race or gender? It's bigger than that.

'So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders?' Do white guys need more help in America? Statistically, white men have a higher chance at being well... anything. Actor. Model. CEOs. Executives. Managers. Interracial marriages. Politicians. Lack of racial profiling. White men getting worked up about this is like rich people getting worked up ab…

That's making the assumption that white people cannot possibly be poor and that black women cannot possibly be rich. I, for one, was poor most of my life and I'm white, albeit not in the US but just across the pond. There are plenty of white people who live in abject poverty. Deprivation of basic needs knows no colour, creed or gender. Why draw lines when it would benefit more people to refrain from doing so?

That's the problem with statistics - they work on large masses and derive means, medians and modes. There are real people who aren't accurately represented by such statistics and making decisions solely on said statistics is unfair to them.

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