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You can't optimize your way to being a good person

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Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#31

Post by tombert »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #29
tombert wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been accused of having "pathological empathy" before [1], and to this day I refuse to accept that empathy is a weakness. Being able to fairly easily put myself in someone else's shoes is pretty much the only thing I actually like about myself. I feel like part of what defines us as a species is learning how to understand people who do not deserve us to understand them. In 2023 my iPhone was stolen (story is pare…

I guess i would have done the same. Do they throw 17 yos in jail, where you live? If so, do they do that over stealing a phone? If so... maybe it would be more moral in stepping into a political career and try to change some laws?

Tons of factors in the US for this stuff; which state you're in, how they stole the phone (e.g. violent vs. just grabbing it off a table when the owner isn't looking), prior history, if they're tried as a child vs adult, and (let's be honest) if they can afford a good lawyer.

It definitely wouldn't be "weird" to throw a 17 year old in jail for stealing an iPhone, particularly in my case it would likely have been tried as a "mugging" and I suspect classified in the "violent" category (even though I was unharmed).

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to throw the book at this kid, it did kind of cause a bit of frustration and trauma that I still haven't completely worked through, but I still think I made the right choice, even if everyone else in my life disagrees.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#32

Post by bumby »

tombert wrote: post #25
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #18

"Being a good person" has been a theme in my entire adult life. I'm a member of an organization that stresses personal improvement (amongst other things). "Being a good person" can vary, by culture and context. For example, some cultures prescribe brusqueness, and direct communication, while other cultures want us to always "beat around the bush," before coming to the point. Think New York City, versus Richmond, Virg…

I've been accused of having "pathological empathy" before [1], and to this day I refuse to accept that empathy is a weakness. Being able to fairly easily put myself in someone else's shoes is pretty much the only thing I actually like about myself. I feel like part of what defines us as a species is learning how to understand people who do not deserve us to understand them. In 2023 my iPhone was stolen (story is pare…

>I've been accused of having "pathological empathy" before [1], and to this day I refuse to accept that empathy is a weakness.

To put it in a different context, the psychologist Paul Bloom wrote an interesting book titled "Against Empathy." He makes a distinction between "emotional empathy" and "cognitive empathy". He is an advocate of the latter, while acknowledging that the former can lead to many sub-optimal outcomes.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#33

Post by jimt1234 »

gitpusher wrote: post #23

If you spend all your time worrying about how to be a good person, chances are you're not being a good person. Just go do nice things. Volunteer somewhere. Be of service. And stop worrying so much

100% ... In my life, I accepted a while back that I don't have to solve world hunger or cure cancer in order to be a good person - just be as courteous to others as I can; focus on the little things. For example, I always park my car in the back of parking lots (or otherwise far away) because I'm perfectly capable of walking, while others might struggle. Is that gonna get me a Nobel prize? Certainly not. But I like to think that, sometimes, maybe once per year, a person who struggles with mobility, like an elderly person or someone with an injury, is gonna struggle just a little bit less because I parked out back. No one's gonna build a statue of me for this, but if it helps just one person, that's a good thing. And it's really not that difficult for me to walk an extra 50 yards. LOL

(Edit to correct spelling: Nobel, not Noble. LOL)

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#34

Post by geodel »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #29
tombert wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been accused of having "pathological empathy" before [1], and to this day I refuse to accept that empathy is a weakness. Being able to fairly easily put myself in someone else's shoes is pretty much the only thing I actually like about myself. I feel like part of what defines us as a species is learning how to understand people who do not deserve us to understand them. In 2023 my iPhone was stolen (story is pare…

I guess i would have done the same. Do they throw 17 yos in jail, where you live? If so, do they do that over stealing a phone? If so... maybe it would be more moral in stepping into a political career and try to change some laws?

Sure. Though politician more likely to win would be one who's hardliner on crime and propose tough laws not compassionate ones.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#35

Post by losteric »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #18

"Being a good person" has been a theme in my entire adult life. I'm a member of an organization that stresses personal improvement (amongst other things). "Being a good person" can vary, by culture and context. For example, some cultures prescribe brusqueness, and direct communication, while other cultures want us to always "beat around the bush," before coming to the point. Think New York City, versus Richmond, Virg…

> I'm a member of an organization that stresses personal improvement (amongst other things).

Do you mind if I ask what kind of organization? I’ve struggled to find active groups focused on values/principles instead of hobbies. Or maybe by organization, you mean work?

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#36

Post by lisper »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #18

"Being a good person" has been a theme in my entire adult life. I'm a member of an organization that stresses personal improvement (amongst other things). "Being a good person" can vary, by culture and context. For example, some cultures prescribe brusqueness, and direct communication, while other cultures want us to always "beat around the bush," before coming to the point. Think New York City, versus Richmond, Virg…

> they can be interpreted as attacking, or weakness

I think a more constructive way to look at it is one style puts a higher cost on wasting time than and the other style puts a higher cost on appearing unsympathetic. I call it "country style" (putting more value on appearing empathetic than being time-efficient) and "city style" (the opposite). People who grow up in one environment or the other often have trouble transitioning to the other simply because they don't understand that there are different quality metrics in play.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#37

Post by soulofmischief »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #29
tombert wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been accused of having "pathological empathy" before [1], and to this day I refuse to accept that empathy is a weakness. Being able to fairly easily put myself in someone else's shoes is pretty much the only thing I actually like about myself. I feel like part of what defines us as a species is learning how to understand people who do not deserve us to understand them. In 2023 my iPhone was stolen (story is pare…

I guess i would have done the same. Do they throw 17 yos in jail, where you live? If so, do they do that over stealing a phone? If so... maybe it would be more moral in stepping into a political career and try to change some laws?

A friend of mine got life in prison with no parole at 17.

I myself got 6 months jail time at 17 after being subject to a highly illegal and corrupt legal racket in a small town, when a meth-dealing police officer planted weed on me at the scene of an accident. I was also homeless. Good times.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#38

Post by atmosx »

Clubber wrote: post #8

I always tell my daughter to be a kind person because there is currently an oversupply of assholes. I try to compliment someone on something whenever I go out and about. I like your hair, I like your shirt, etc. It's the simple things. The author and their anecdotes seem like compulsive behavior/thinking. They'll hopefully get over it once life beats them down a bit more. Just be good to people, don't over think it.

> I always tell my daughter to be a kind person because there is currently an oversupply of assholes.

I'm sorry to hear that. I don't want to come across as harsh, but your approach/wording seems condescending, egotistical, and ultimately an empty way to live. Wise people learn by observing others (as the saying goes), but allowing others to dictate who you are reflects a lack of character IMO.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#39

Post by bezier-curve »

jimt1234 wrote: post #19

This whole article just feels like analysis paralysis. Maybe it's me, but I don't think being a good person really requires that much thought.

This was my impression as well, not sure who the article is for but it's not me, I don't like feeling patronized.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#40

Post by tombert »

bumby wrote: post #32
tombert wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been accused of having "pathological empathy" before [1], and to this day I refuse to accept that empathy is a weakness. Being able to fairly easily put myself in someone else's shoes is pretty much the only thing I actually like about myself. I feel like part of what defines us as a species is learning how to understand people who do not deserve us to understand them. In 2023 my iPhone was stolen (story is pare…

> I've been accused of having "pathological empathy" before [1], and to this day I refuse to accept that empathy is a weakness. To put it in a different context, the psychologist Paul Bloom wrote an interesting book titled "Against Empathy." He makes a distinction between "emotional empathy" and "cognitive empathy". He is an advocate of the latter, while acknowledging that the former can lead to many sub-optimal outc…

I'm not terribly concerned with optimizing, honestly. I try and make decisions that I'm unlikely to regret, at least not for long term. Hurting someone, or not helping someone that I should have helped, are things that I end up really regretting, and those are the things that keep me up at night.

I don't lose a lot of sleep for doing something that I genuinely thought was right. If someone takes advantage of my empathetic nature and exploits me, I'm not exactly slap-happy about it, but I can go to bed knowing that I did the right thing, and that person is just an asshole.

Pretty much every single bad thing I've done that I lose sleep over has come as a direct result of me trying to "override" my natural empathy. I'm done doing that.

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