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BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

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Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#81

Post by tysonjennings »

JPKab wrote: post #80
tysonjennings wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, I'm a fairly new user with low karma but I'm going to burn every bit of it up in this one post so I'm going to try to make it good. First, let me ask you a question. What's the poorest country in the western hemisphere? Haiti. What makes it "special"? Now, what's the poorest most impoverished continent in the world? Africa. What makes it "special"? I think you get the picture. I'm going to tell you a little sec…

Old studies show that intelligence is largely genetic. New studies are increasingly showing that it is much, much, more influenced by environment. This isn't reddit, so nobody can downvote you. You know what you said was offensive, but you probably don't know that what you said is completely, absolutely scientifically inaccurate. I could answer this with data, but instead I'll be anecdotal. It's not scientific, but i…

"New studies are increasingly showing that it is much, much, more influenced by environment."

Let me translate: we have a socially responsible conclusion now let's design a study that produces it.

"This isn't reddit, so nobody can downvote you."

When you get karma over 150, you will see a little arrow pointing down next to each comment.

"You know what you said was offensive, but you probably don't know that what you said is completely, absolutely scientifically inaccurate."

Have fun deluding yourself.

"I could answer this with data, but instead I'll be anecdotal."

Of course you'll be anecdotal. I would expect no less.

"My best friend"

Bored already.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#82

Post by wpietri »

JPKab wrote: post #13

I realize that the realities of the limited resources available for charities and non-profits is what leads to the ethnic and gender based targeting, but this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Is it a good cause? Yes. Teaching any disadvantaged group a useful skill is a great thing, but solving a problem of exclusion with further exclusion is, in principal, bad. I grew up in a poor, mostly black, rural county in V…

Can you explain what you're doing to help disadvantaged people learn to code that is better than this?

Because if the answer is nothing, then I don't think you have much standing to talk. Shouting "U R DOIN IT RONG" while standing on the sidelines just reduces the the speed at which the world gets better, so I don't have a lot of time for it.

Anyhow, I gave 'em a hundred bucks. I give money to other people, too.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#83

Post by [deleted] »

JPKab wrote: post #13

I realize that the realities of the limited resources available for charities and non-profits is what leads to the ethnic and gender based targeting, but this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Is it a good cause? Yes. Teaching any disadvantaged group a useful skill is a great thing, but solving a problem of exclusion with further exclusion is, in principal, bad. I grew up in a poor, mostly black, rural county in V…

[deleted]

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#84

Post by bilbo0s »

natrius wrote: post #35
Produce wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders? Would it be fair that one segment of the impoverished get special treatment? Surely it would be better to organise something like PoorPeopleCode, since that is the segment of society which, in fact, needs help - poor people. Who gives a crap about race or gender? It's bigger than that.

"Surely it would be better to organise something like PoorPeopleCode, since that is the segment of society which, in fact, needs help - poor people." Women code less than men of the same socioeconomic background. Not everything is about money. Plenty of these girls would make decent livings for themselves in other fields, but thanks to this program, some will find that programming is their true calling. That is a wor…

Well...

Not really.

To be COMPLETELY fair, we would need to concede that in this particular demographic...

That is... poor, black children...

NO ONE has a real opportunity to code, male or female. So I think a PoorPeopleCode would have made more sense here.

Having mentioned that, I believe firmly in the principle of people being able to contribute charitably to whatever cause they please. It's just that, quite naturally, there will develop in any culture... well ... let's call them 'preferences'. In India, the government just started an investigation of private schools which forced Dalits to wear different uniforms, stand in the back of classrooms etc. In Indonesia... it's not good to be a Chinese Christian. And... in the US ... I'm not letting anyone in on any secrets when I tell you that you don't want to be a black boy in our school system for instance.

These 'preferences' usually manifest themselves in charitable giving and... VOILA. This doesn't make the charity 'bad', just puts it in line with most of the other charitable giving in the US. Not so much 'bad', as just... 'unexceptional'.

Sorry to be so longwinded. Was just trying to be fair to both sides.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#85

Post by malvim »

tikhonj wrote: post #79
malvim wrote: post #65

Ok, cool. Everyone has their ideas, they all make sense (we're all reasonably rational people here) and, in an ideal world, I agree that we should not need or have these groups. Except... the under-representation is already there, so we have to deal with it. And I think BGC is a damn fine way to deal with part of it. Is there anyone here who is NOT a white male and would care to comment?

While agree with your comment, I think your last comment is unwarranted. Just because somebody is a white male does not devalue their point. Moreover, you should really never judge an argument based on the person making it.

I agree wholeheartedly with your point, and as I said before most of the ideas presented here, either for or against this initiative, make sense! It's a difficult subject and one that should be discussed.

It just seems to me that we all have lots of ideas about stuff most of us have never been through, and it might be nice to hear from people who've actually been through them.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#86

Post by wpietri »

Produce wrote: post #33
slurgfest wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If some black girls want to code, what possible reason do you have to object? Let them. Leave them alone, if you aren't supportive. That's all you need to do. The group isn't preventing white people from coding. If you want white people to code, you can make your own group. And it will fly really well anywhere in the South and many places in the West and you won't have to say anything about how it's only for white pe…

So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders? Would it be fair that one segment of the impoverished get special treatment? Surely it would be better to organise something like PoorPeopleCode, since that is the segment of society which, in fact, needs help - poor people. Who gives a crap about race or gender? It's bigger than that.

Plenty of people give a crap about race and gender. In a way that works against black women.

I got into programming because my dad did it, not because of some rational calculus of my abilities and society's needs. Role models are like that.

At least until the point black women are vastly overrepresented in positions of power in the tech industry, I don't see anything wrong with a black woman programmer acting as a role model for young black women.

If you would also like to set up PoorPeopleCode, nobody is stopping you.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#87

Post by grannyg00se »

slurgfest wrote: post #38
grannyg00se wrote: post #28

"Our mission with BlackGirlsCode is to “change the ratio” of women of color in technology and that begins with introducing computer programming and STEM subjects to girls of all colors at an early age. " It's not only for black girls. I suspect it's for all but white though so they still exclude based on color. And of course age and gender. I really wish people would stop reinforcing racial discrimination of all sort…

That is why (for example in Python) there is PyLadies, and that is why there is every other general Python group, in which there is no group-wide disadvantage for white men. Most of these groups I have been to, have mostly been white men with lots of alpha-nerding going on. I can't say I have seen any overt instances of racism but I still totally appreciate that minorities could be uncomfortable and benefit greatly f…

I don't see it as a war against anybody but whenever you discriminate based on race you are encouraging others to do the same. I don't like to see race brought up in every facet of life. If it wasn't such a commonly used differentiator then everybody would feel comfortable in any group because race would be insignificant.

Taken to the extreme, it becomes downright immature and pathetic. Do we really need a group specifically for blacks, and one for asians, and one for mixed black asians, and one for mexicans, and one for indians... etc? Give me a break. I wish we could all just collectively grow up.

Actually that's not quite right. Young children don't tend to segregate like that. They have us beat in that area. It's only once they learn our ways that they start to do it. Again, because it is continually reinforced as a part of society.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#88

Post by fiblye »

rmc wrote: post #73
natrius wrote: post #31

Several comments claim that targeting by race is inherently wrong. I disagree. Anyone want to back that claim up with logic?

Sometimes people in the privileged group (male and/or white) don't like targetting based on race/gender when it's negatively affects them .

This kind of "logic" really bothers me.

Just because a chunk of a certain demographic is comparatively "privileged", we should gloss over all those who struggle to make a living simply because they were born a white male? If anything, being born poor and white can be more difficult because people bitch about your "privilege" each time you ask for the slightest degree of help.

If you're poor and white, you're pretty much screwed when it comes to being able to afford colleges. Most scholarships serve people that belong to a certain (non-white) race, religious, or military background. You don't get access to any tutoring and you're usually working after school to help support your family, so it's borderline impossible to get a 4.0 GPA and even begin qualifying for non-racial scholarships.

Outside of racial profiling within America's law enforcement (which is a huge, huge, huge problem that desperately needs to be fixed), there's really no "white privilege" in America. It's "high-income privilege." Anybody born of a wealthy family has a chance, and anybody who isn't suffers. The problem is that we're still looking at race when determining how much support to offer instead of looking at how much a person needs it.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#89

Post by mrmusa »

grannyg00se wrote: post #28

"Our mission with BlackGirlsCode is to “change the ratio” of women of color in technology and that begins with introducing computer programming and STEM subjects to girls of all colors at an early age. " It's not only for black girls. I suspect it's for all but white though so they still exclude based on color. And of course age and gender. I really wish people would stop reinforcing racial discrimination of all sort…

since when do all colors exclude white?

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#90

Post by wpietri »

tikhonj wrote: post #79
malvim wrote: post #65

Ok, cool. Everyone has their ideas, they all make sense (we're all reasonably rational people here) and, in an ideal world, I agree that we should not need or have these groups. Except... the under-representation is already there, so we have to deal with it. And I think BGC is a damn fine way to deal with part of it. Is there anyone here who is NOT a white male and would care to comment?

While agree with your comment, I think your last comment is unwarranted. Just because somebody is a white male does not devalue their point. Moreover, you should really never judge an argument based on the person making it.

Hi! White male here.

I am absolutely less qualified to comment on racism. Because I very rarely experience it, and often don't notice it when it happens.

Similarly, I also believe that one should be suspicious of non-technical managers who have opinions on how to code.

Experience matters.

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