Earlier quoted context omitted.
What did the Romans ever do for us?
I dont know who "us" is, but probably roads and writing?
I think reference is in order... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ
Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds
141–150 of 176 posts
Re: Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're basically right about the relative nature of IQ scores, but you're wrong about the comparison being drawn. To impute the effect of lead, you look at a bunch of people, measure the amount of lead in their blood, measure their IQs, and see how much of a difference there is between people with a lot of lead and people with less or none. Modern poor people who live in crummy areas where there's still a little bit…
The elites have always been the highest in lead. Slaves etc. had none.
You have a very different mental picture of America over "decades past" than most people do.
Re: Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a bit of a thing with a particular political persuasion in the US right now (RFK Jr has made his anti-fluoride position a big part of his deal for his future role as Secretary of Health and Human Services), and there was a report in the news recently that some see as backing up the claims against fluoride: https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2025-01-06/what-a-new-... It's not as conclusive a study as some peop…
nothing to do with RFK or politics, I feel like people are missing the point here though, imagine Rome in 45 BC “why call out lead?” while Roberto F Kenedius has been spreading conspiracies about lead pipes being bad
Does your point have nothing to do with RFK, or is the point people are missing that RFK has been spreading conspiracy theories that might be real after all? I'm somewhat confused by the seeming contradiction.
Re: Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds
#144> Roman Empire’s use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds I'm not a fan of this phrasing. None of the findings had anything to do with measuring IQ levels in ancient Europe. They were about measuring historical levels of lead, which they then just plugged into modern models to presume some levels of cognitive effects. A study that was actually able to measure cognitive disparities and correlate them w…
Would have implies they didn't use lead buy if they had it would have lowered IQs May have lowered IQs based on extrapolation and modern studies Might be a better way to put it
Both are valid ways of using "would have", in this case I'm using it as the past tense of "will have". But I appreciate the ambiguity it creates.
> We use "would have" as the past tense form of will have:
>> I phoned at six o'clock. I knew he would have got home by then.
Note the difference between this and:
> I phoned at six o'clock. I knew he was home by then.
Which implies first-hand knowledge of his location. The first only signals a logical conclusion.
https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/grammar/english-gram...
Re: Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds
#145> Roman Empire’s use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds I'm not a fan of this phrasing. None of the findings had anything to do with measuring IQ levels in ancient Europe. They were about measuring historical levels of lead, which they then just plugged into modern models to presume some levels of cognitive effects. A study that was actually able to measure cognitive disparities and correlate them w…
It is perfectly reasonable to assume lead would affect people 2000 years ago the same way it does today. Human biology hasn't changed.
Re: Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
2.5-3 micrograms per deciliter is nothing. Wouldn’t even come up as elevated by current childhood screening guidelines. I very much doubt 2-3 IQ point difference.
I wouldn't call it nothing. Current regulation requires water supply at the tap to measure 2-3 µg/L is significant.
You are comparing level in the blood and water.
Re: Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
The majority, but not all - some run on UL91 or even "mogas" (unleaded fuel from the petrol station).
Some of the smaller airports in the Bay Area (HWD, RHV, SQL) have UL94 but not all (PAO, HAF, and the large ones SJC, SFO, OAK don't). Fuel from a petrol station off field doesn't do you a lot of good, and it really doesn't help if you're refueling en route.
Incidentally, aerospace Youtuber Scott Manley just did an excellent deep dive on lead in aviation gas.
Re: Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds
#148> On average, lead levels in children’s blood at the peak of the Roman empire could have risen 2.4 micrograms per decilitre, the researchers found, reducing their IQ by 2.5 to 3 points. When taking background lead into account, childhood blood levels may have reached about 3.5 micrograms per decilitre. > A 2021 study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the US found blood levels in children aged one t…
Wow. We mock those stupid Romans for putting lead in their drinking water supply, but we literally vaporized it and had everyone inhale it for decades so it'd go straight to the bloodstream.
> we literally vaporized it and had everyone inhale it for decades
this is a massive scandal that has not been fully understood in public AFAIK. Extensive documentation of the false premise of leaded gasoline has been published, e.g.
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/secret-history-lea...
Re: Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes it matters. Faster car can run more miles in a day. More IQ can do more work.
Unfortunately for that we have computers so we don't need high IQ to do more work like calculations but higher quality work (which also depends on what kind of work you're doing) and that is oftentimes not primarily related to high IQ (think of creative work)
IQ measures reasoning capability, not speed of mental calculations.
Re: Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
That a very reductive view. Data shows that during the Roman empire, people moved on mass from hill forts into the flatlands (presumably giving better acess to agroculture, trade and water). We also see far more material culture, and not just for rich people. Huge amount of just common consumer goods, and this even streches far beyond the borders of the empire itself. Population also increased during this time.
> Population also increased during this time you mean after the slaughters?
Yes, many places part of the empire for 100s, sometimes even 1000 years.
And conquest is of course always bad. But that wasn't the point you were making.
You were talking as if there was constant large scale starvation in Rome, and there for the most part wasn't. You point that only rich Roman elites didn't regularly starve isn't really true. And its certainty not true in comparison to other places in the ancient world.