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Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

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Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#121
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> And why aren't you considering the countervailing harm to society of centralized moderation? Are there reproducible studies showing that? What is the effect size? (These objections go both ways!)

Arguably they don't go both ways. The distinction is action vs inaction. If someone wants action from someone else, they need to argue the case for that action. Arguing for not doing something on the other hand is never necessary.

To see why, consider that the space of possible actions someone could not take is infinite. If there's an expectation that someone do a ton of research and work to argue for why they are not doing something, then the amount of work they would have to do is thus also infinite. This way lies madness, which is why in reality the default outcome that results from not acting is always taken as a given.

Sometimes this reality is obfuscated by activists. They find some group of people who are just doing their thing, and demand that those people do some extra things (usually some costly things). The arguments they make for this are weak, but when the targeted people say they'd rather not do those extra things the activists demand their targets argue for not doing what the activists want to whatever level of effort (or greater) they themselves made. This can be an effective bullying tactic but isn't legitimate: it's on those who want action to argue the case for it, not those who don't to argue against.

Digital platforms like social networks default to uncensored. If the operators do nothing, then by the way they are built content is allowed. It takes additional work to categorize posts and block certain kinds of content. So the default outcome is free speech. If someone wants someone else to do work to suppress that, then it's on them to prove that it's truly necessary and that the benefits outweigh the harms. But that doesn't cut both ways; it's not required for other people to take on the argument for free speech. That's the default outcome so it just wins by default if the other side can't prove their case to a sufficiently convincing level.

Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#122
post #17

Mark has looked at what has happened to Twitter since Musk took over, a notable decline in activity and value… and decided he wants a piece of that? Musk is begging people on Twitter to post more positive content, as it devolves into 4chan-lite. If Musk’s ideological experiment with Twitter had proven the idea that you can have a pleasant to use website without any moderation then Mark’s philosophical 180 would at le…

I’m not sure where you’re getting data from but Twitter seems fine: https://www.demandsage.com/twitter-statistics/

Additionally, if you haven’t read the article you’re commenting on, community notes is an excellent replacement so-called fact checking services which are notoriously biased.

Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#123
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. My personal belief, for whatever that's worth, is that communication and speech are one of the most powerful tools any of us have. Talking can change minds, move societies, arouse emotions, and in general makes a difference. This is true no matter the format (text, voice, etc.). That means that restricting communication should not be a casual activity. Free speech is a good ideal for a reason. It also means that…

Which is why we should research this carefully - and the research thus far points to consumption or graphic or even borderline depictions of suicide, self injury and eating disorder content (eg thinspo) being bad for mental health in at least teens. Meta seem to be making the case for those who would see social media banned for people under the age of 18. To enforce that properly would require needing ID, and that th…

The social "science" research in this area is junk with small effect sizes, unclear causality, and multiple uncontrolled variables. People who claim to be following the science in this area are generally being disingenuous and picking results that support their preferred ideology.

Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#124
post #2

From bad to worse. Meta is probably one of the single largest funders of fact checking. Now that appears to be coming to an end. Third parties will no longer be able to flag misinfo on FB, Instagram or Threads in the US. This is not good imho.

Thank God. Fact checkers and political organisations pretending to fact check frequently spread false information. Aside from the 2020 election interference regarding the Hunter Biden laptop (which was falsely claimed to be a Russian disinformation effort), you can visit Snopes right now and read an article on how someone that blew up people (and now works for BLM) may not be a terrorist because ‘there are many different definitions of terrorist’.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/blm-terrorist-rosenberg/

Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#125
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And why aren't you considering the countervailing harm to society of centralized moderation? Are there reproducible studies showing that? What is the effect size? (These objections go both ways!)

Right. The challenge for free speech absolutists is to demonstrate that free speech takes priority over moderating hate speech, adult content, highly addictive media etc... . That demonstration needs to evidence-based and framed in terms of short and long term social harms/impact. Simply saying "censorship hasn't gone well for some countries" or "having a free speech zone is extremely important to the future of civil…

No, that's not how this works. By default everything permitted. The entire burden of evidence rests on those who want bans or restrictions.

Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#126
post #38

As a leftist, while this is concerning, it's also important to remember that Meta censors left content as much as it does right content. So, while this announcement certainly seems to be in bad faith (what could Mark mean by "gender" other than transphobic discussion?), this should be a boon both for far-right and left discussion. Does that mean increased polarization and political violence? Surely, surely.

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Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#127
post #77
post #38

As a leftist, while this is concerning, it's also important to remember that Meta censors left content as much as it does right content. So, while this announcement certainly seems to be in bad faith (what could Mark mean by "gender" other than transphobic discussion?), this should be a boon both for far-right and left discussion. Does that mean increased polarization and political violence? Surely, surely.

> this should be a boon both for far-right and left discussion. If by left discussion you mean discussion of the genocide in Gaza, don't count on it, because this censorship is bipartisan in the United States. Zuck cares about currying favor with the powerful. He doesn't give a crap about the powerless. Also, he's pretending that Texas, the proposed site for content moderation, is not politically biased, which is lau…

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Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#128

They've also said there will be more harmful (but legal) content on there as they'll no longer automatically look for it, but require it to be reported before taking action. As someone who worked on harmful content, specifically suicide and self injury, this is just nuts - they were raked over the coals in both the UK by an inquest into the suicide of a teenage user who rabbit holed on this harmful content, and also…

“Think of the children” isn’t really a good argument for censoring completely legal political discourse, which is what has been happening.

They are admitting that there has been a global push against free speech on these platforms.

>There is research that shows exposure to suicide and self injury content increases suicidal ideation.

I mean do you really need research to show this link? Of course it does.

We are okay with slapping an “R” rating on movies and allowing parents to be the ones who decide what content their kids can see. Why can’t we decide that parents also need to be the ones to stop their kids from consuming bad content on social media?

Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#129
post #125
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. The challenge for free speech absolutists is to demonstrate that free speech takes priority over moderating hate speech, adult content, highly addictive media etc... . That demonstration needs to evidence-based and framed in terms of short and long term social harms/impact. Simply saying "censorship hasn't gone well for some countries" or "having a free speech zone is extremely important to the future of civil…

No, that's not how this works. By default everything permitted. The entire burden of evidence rests on those who want bans or restrictions.

Hmm. Who decides "how this works"?

Consider hate speech. There is a clear short-term benefit of moderation: reducing the harms to marginalised people from being exposed to threats to their person, identity, and way of life. In the face of this benefit, the absolute free speech advocate must provide a counter-argument for why free speech overrides that harm-reduction.

Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#130

Will this totally end content moderation? That could be a small silver lining, as content moderation for FB appears to be extremely hazardous to one's mental health: https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/22/business/facebook-content-mod...

Obviously exposing the same content which was proven to cause harm to the content moderators to absolutely everybody on the platform will be worse.
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