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Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

linux.oracle.com

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Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#171

Post by keithpeter »

dkroy wrote: post #46
wdaher wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Disclaimer: I had a hand in a lot of this) That's not quite the intent. Look, here's the deal: I know we all like to think that corporations are evil and the presence of corporate interests actually messes stuff up. But this really is one case where you want the oomph of bilion-dollar company making sure that you get your security updates in time. No one else is providing that. Oracle happens to be doing so, and we'…

This is a really smart move. I started typing a huge write up why, but there are too many reasons why this free product/paid support model are good for both Oracle and their future clients.

OK, just pop some bullet points here so we can all benefit from your perspective. I don't think anyone will criticise a rough draft.

Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#172

Post by sigkill »

ghjm wrote: post #123
wdaher wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Disclaimer: I had a hand in a lot of this) That's not quite the intent. Look, here's the deal: I know we all like to think that corporations are evil and the presence of corporate interests actually messes stuff up. But this really is one case where you want the oomph of bilion-dollar company making sure that you get your security updates in time. No one else is providing that. Oracle happens to be doing so, and we'…

You are saying that Oracle's goal is to make sure that CentOS customers can access the resources of a billion dollar company in order to get security patches on time. If that were all that was going on, then Oracle would just provide funding and engineering support to CentOS. Since you aren't doing that, one of two things must be happening: 1. This is part of a long term strategy, which means it will somehow make a p…

I believe they're playing Microsoft's Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. Right now, they're at the Embrace stage.

Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#173

Post by andrewcooke »

davidw wrote: post #108
andrewcooke wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but at what price? at the price of losing centos because oracle are a predatory monster driven solely by greed? put it another, more constructive way: wouldn't it be better to help centos rather than try to kill them? why not take that route?

Most users of either one will likely not contribute anything at all back besides simply being part of the "network effects". I'm not a fan of Oracle either, but your rhetoric is in the red zone...

you're right i'm angry. i'm sorry if it offends you. but still, i don't see what you're argument is. are you saying that because i am angry and "rhetorical" it's ok to switch to oracle?

is noticing that i am angry somehow going to make everything work out? when centos folds and oracle decide to "raise margins" me being angry will make centos come back?

because if not, i would suggest worrying a little less about my emotional state and a little more about the future of your operating system.

Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#174

Post by keithpeter »

wdaher wrote: post #140
druiid wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? You guys are providing a script to switch from CentOS to OL, but I don't see a comparable script to switch back to CentOS. Where is the script to easily switch back when Oracle decides to screw everyone over as many have already brought up?

druiid: If that happens, I will personally help you switch back any systems you switched over this way :) My email address is in my profile. As for everyone else, yeah, a '--reverse' was somewhere in our set of desired features for the script, but ultimately this became about some combination of "Launch early, launch often" and "MVP", two topics I know we all love here :)

I suspect that the development of the --reverse switch would significantly increase the credibility of your offer. CERN is around for the long haul and Princeton isn't about to disappear, so there will always be a backout vehicle for refusniks.

Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#175

Post by bcantrill »

cmkrnl wrote: post #165
bcantrill wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone decrying Oracle as "evil" is falling into a trap that I have warned about[1]: they are making the mistake of anthropomorphizing Larry Ellison -- they are infusing Oracle with humanity that it does not in fact have. Oracle is, as another commenter put it, a corporate sociopath. The inability to empathize is fine for a monopolist (and indeed, it's a terrific asset -- and after five months of working there, I con…

The fate of OpenSolaris is quite sad. Do you think SmartOS and similar efforts will significantly diverge from Solaris in the future? This thing with Oracle Linux - I always felt that Red Hat should've made RHEL (+ Desktop) freely available (including updates) since the beginning.

It depends on what you mean by "significantly diverge." If you mean "innovate", then yes -- absolutely. We already have tons of evidence of differentiated innovation in illumos[1][2][3] -- none of which can be brought back into Solaris.[4]

[1] http://blog.delphix.com/matt/2012/07/11/performance-of-zfs-d...

[2] http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2012/06/07/dtrace-in-the-zone/

[3] http://dtrace.org/blogs/rm/2012/07/16/per-thread-caching-in-...

[4] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc#t=43m55s

Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#176

Post by keithpeter »

wdaher wrote: post #166
pgeorgi wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So there are migrate-away scripts, too? I suppose they wouldn't be very hard to do (essentially drop Oracle specific packages, and point yum to the original repos).

There isn't a reverse script yet, but you're right, making one would be fairly straightforward. '--reverse' is something I'd like to see implemented, though, if nothing else because it'll assuage people's fears, and makes it feel less risky to experiment.

do that, it is key

Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#177

Post by joshAg »

moe wrote: post #153
wdaher wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm totally with you on fear of lockin, but for what it's worth, this particular case is basically the opposite of lock-in. You can, at any time, switch away to CentOS, Scientific Linux, or Red Hat (if you're willing to write the check) and not have to totally reinvent your stack from scratch, since they're all binary-compatible.

Then why mess with Oracle to begin with? There are so many mature linux distros to choose from and plenty have trustworthy, battle-tested, commercial support-options if that's what you need. I can't come up with a plausible reason why anyone would even consider Oracle.

Because "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM".

Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#178

Post by keithpeter »

wdaher wrote: post #146
sciurus wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have the Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel (UEK), as well as a RHEL-compatible kernel. I'm not sure which is the default in new installs. https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/entry/oracle_unbreakable_ente...

From the release notes: "By default, both the Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel and the Red Hat Compatible Kernel are installed on the x86_64 (64 bit) platform, and the system boots the Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel by default. If needed, /etc/grub.conf can be modifed to make the system boot with the Red Hat Compatible Kernel by default." https://oss.oracle.com/el6/docs/RELEASE-NOTES-GA-en.html

So for the avoidance of doubt, the CentOS upgrade script will preserve the RHEL/CentOS 2.6.32.x kernel, but a fresh install from the netboot or dvd will install the UEK 3.0 install?

Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#179

Post by keithpeter »

buster wrote: post #128
debacle wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fantastic, actually. They've really embraced the OSS Java community and MySQL is stronger than it has ever been. The OpenSolaris community is also thriving, and Oracle's partnership with Google has helped move Android forward leaps and bounds.

You should've put a tag in the end ;)

Yes, fortunately, I was on my work PC that has a £10 keyboard when I was reading this.

Seriously: what a palaaver that a huge company has to shove a tiny project aside.

Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#180

Post by justin66 »

Regarding trust issues, I went from trusting the CentOS team (and defending them against some criticisms that turned out to be quite valid) to being kind of disgusted with them during the CentOS 6 fiasco. There are different kinds of trust and I really don't see either CentOS or Oracle Linux as a good risk.
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