Several comments claim that targeting by race is inherently wrong. I disagree. Anyone want to back that claim up with logic?
BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program
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Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program
#32I like the idea of the program, but specifically "Black girls"...
The goal of these types of programs is to change cultures. If under-representation isn't caused by biology, then it's caused by culture. If the programs didn't target people within the cultures they're trying to change, they wouldn't succeed. They'd be full of the people who are already likely to be interested in programming, which isn't a problem in itself, but isn't the goal of the programs.
What if under-representation is caused by collectivism? After all, the solution to slavery wasn't reversing or evening out the ethnicities of slave and master, it was getting rid of slavery altogether.
Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program
#33I realize that the realities of the limited resources available for charities and non-profits is what leads to the ethnic and gender based targeting, but this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Is it a good cause? Yes. Teaching any disadvantaged group a useful skill is a great thing, but solving a problem of exclusion with further exclusion is, in principal, bad. I grew up in a poor, mostly black, rural county in V…
If some black girls want to code, what possible reason do you have to object? Let them. Leave them alone, if you aren't supportive. That's all you need to do. The group isn't preventing white people from coding. If you want white people to code, you can make your own group. And it will fly really well anywhere in the South and many places in the West and you won't have to say anything about how it's only for white pe…
So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders? Would it be fair that one segment of the impoverished get special treatment? Surely it would be better to organise something like PoorPeopleCode, since that is the segment of society which, in fact, needs help - poor people. Who gives a crap about race or gender? It's bigger than that.
Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
I read your rant a few times and I've yet to see your point. Charities should be based on need and helping the greater good, not on playing favorites. This isn't a charity. A black woman started this program to address a legitimate need that she saw. Others who agreed with her gave her money to do it. Where is the bad in this? How is this anything but a net positive for the world?
I'd guess the bad bit is the sexism and racism. Would you be so positive if it was some program that excluded any applicant that wasn't a white male?
It's all about how it's framed and who is watching. If it is a local men's club dedicated to charitable acts in a county that is almost entirely white then the response would likely be very positive. I say this confidently because there are a huge number of such groups, they just aren't NAMED "club for white men only".
Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
If some black girls want to code, what possible reason do you have to object? Let them. Leave them alone, if you aren't supportive. That's all you need to do. The group isn't preventing white people from coding. If you want white people to code, you can make your own group. And it will fly really well anywhere in the South and many places in the West and you won't have to say anything about how it's only for white pe…
So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders? Would it be fair that one segment of the impoverished get special treatment? Surely it would be better to organise something like PoorPeopleCode, since that is the segment of society which, in fact, needs help - poor people. Who gives a crap about race or gender? It's bigger than that.
"Surely it would be better to organise something like PoorPeopleCode, since that is the segment of society which, in fact, needs help - poor people."
Women code less than men of the same socioeconomic background. Not everything is about money. Plenty of these girls would make decent livings for themselves in other fields, but thanks to this program, some will find that programming is their true calling. That is a worthwhile effort.
Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program
#36Several comments claim that targeting by race is inherently wrong. I disagree. Anyone want to back that claim up with logic?
I was just about to call out the gender discrimination myself. You're not alone.
Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd guess the bad bit is the sexism and racism. Would you be so positive if it was some program that excluded any applicant that wasn't a white male?
This: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4262233
I disagree. Everyone can be a minority if they decide to, depending on how you cut the population.
To claim "white males" are a majority is just an arbitrary distinction you're making. Everyone is a majority or minority depending on your criteria.
You don't fix racism/sexist/etc with more racism/sexism/etc. You fix it by being inclusive, and judging people on their merits.
Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program
#38"Our mission with BlackGirlsCode is to “change the ratio” of women of color in technology and that begins with introducing computer programming and STEM subjects to girls of all colors at an early age. " It's not only for black girls. I suspect it's for all but white though so they still exclude based on color. And of course age and gender. I really wish people would stop reinforcing racial discrimination of all sort…
That is why (for example in Python) there is PyLadies, and that is why there is every other general Python group, in which there is no group-wide disadvantage for white men. Most of these groups I have been to, have mostly been white men with lots of alpha-nerding going on. I can't say I have seen any overt instances of racism but I still totally appreciate that minorities could be uncomfortable and benefit greatly from a support system that could increase their comfort level in the community and make them feel more assured.
I don't see this as a zero-sum war against white people and I hope you don't either.
Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
The goal of these types of programs is to change cultures. If under-representation isn't caused by biology, then it's caused by culture. If the programs didn't target people within the cultures they're trying to change, they wouldn't succeed. They'd be full of the people who are already likely to be interested in programming, which isn't a problem in itself, but isn't the goal of the programs.
What if under-representation is caused by collectivism? After all, the solution to slavery wasn't reversing or evening out the ethnicities of slave and master, it was getting rid of slavery altogether.
I don't understand. How is collectivism not culture? Slavery was abolished because American culture began to frown upon it.
Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program
#40Several comments claim that targeting by race is inherently wrong. I disagree. Anyone want to back that claim up with logic?
I was just about to call out the gender discrimination myself. You're not alone.
I edited the comment to remove the gender reference before you replied, as several people have now brought it up.