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Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds

theguardian.com

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Re: Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds

#71

Post by gazchop »

PeterHolzwarth wrote: post #49
peeters wrote: post #46

> Roman Empire’s use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds I'm not a fan of this phrasing. None of the findings had anything to do with measuring IQ levels in ancient Europe. They were about measuring historical levels of lead, which they then just plugged into modern models to presume some levels of cognitive effects. A study that was actually able to measure cognitive disparities and correlate them w…

Fully agree, @peeters - as I've mentioned elsewhere in these comments, there's a long-standing trend of trying to identify the one true cause of the fall of the Roman Empire. Each explanation falls short - it's just a complicated thing (and heck, the empire didn't really fall, it just shifted east.)

Inclined to agree with this. It didn't fall, just sort of withered into other cultural ideologies and empires.

Some of it was also fucking bananas which didn't survive enlightenment.

Re: Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds

#75

Post by [deleted] »

SMP-UX wrote: post #65

Roman lead pipes were not a significant factor on the health of humans back then... To the same extent as public sewers, bathing, hygiene rules etc. Rome had it a lot better than even some countries today. Yeah you still had to deal with infections and such which could have been deadly but time and medicine era that you were in you had way better health outcomes in Rome

[deleted]

Re: Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds

#76

Post by HeatrayEnjoyer »

nahnahno wrote: post #51
curmudgeon22 wrote: post #3

> On average, lead levels in children’s blood at the peak of the Roman empire could have risen 2.4 micrograms per decilitre, the researchers found, reducing their IQ by 2.5 to 3 points. When taking background lead into account, childhood blood levels may have reached about 3.5 micrograms per decilitre. > A 2021 study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the US found blood levels in children aged one t…

2.5-3 micrograms per deciliter is nothing. Wouldn’t even come up as elevated by current childhood screening guidelines. I very much doubt 2-3 IQ point difference.

I wouldn't call it nothing.

Current regulation requires water supply at the tap to measure 2-3 µg/L is significant.

Re: Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds

#77

Post by AngryData »

timschmidt wrote: post #17
PeterHolzwarth wrote: post #15

I have no idea if this is true (and honestly can only barely remember the reference, which I read maybe a decade or two ago), but I believe I saw a comment that the interior of lead pipes eventually develop a "calcified" (don't know what else to call it) lining of the lead reacting to water, such that lead stops leeching into the water that passes through the pipes. I believe this came up when reading something about…

It's called mineralization, and happens so long as there are dissolved minerals in the water and PH is correct. Lead contamination happened in Flint, MI because additives to control the water PH were neglected to save cost, and slightly acidic water ate away at the mineralization layer in the pipes and began dissolving the lead again.

I don't know if I would call Flint's water just "slightly" acidic. It was acidic enough for the Flint hospital to complain about their stainless steel sinks rusting, for local automotive plants to dig their own wells because it was destroying parts they were washing, and turned their entire water supply system into swiss cheese that had to be replaced. It might be slightly acidic compared to highly concentrated acids, but in terms of potable water it seems extremely corrosive.

Re: Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds

#78

Post by Symbiote »

SMP-UX wrote: post #65

Roman lead pipes were not a significant factor on the health of humans back then... To the same extent as public sewers, bathing, hygiene rules etc. Rome had it a lot better than even some countries today. Yeah you still had to deal with infections and such which could have been deadly but time and medicine era that you were in you had way better health outcomes in Rome

You seem to have missed the third paragraph of the article.

Re: Roman Empire's use of lead lowered IQ levels across Europe, study finds

#79

Post by AngryData »

eru wrote: post #37
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #10

Similarly, arsenical bronze (copper + arsenic) was common before tin started to be used, and I've often wondered how common arsenic poisoning was in the copper age / early bronze age. When we think of the nastiness of industry, it's often industrial 19th century Britain and so on, but some of these villages (often quite remote) back then were full on industrial sites with massive smelting operations and the entire po…

Yes, 19th century Britain was already well on its way out of the nastiness. And the first industrial revolution was already over.

I don't know much about Britain's historical usage of bronze alloys, but I would be surprised if Britain used all that much arsenic bronze at all because Cornwall has some of of the largest and oldest tin mines in the world. But of course mining and metal processing in general has tons of nasty things besides just arsenic.
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