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My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

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Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#181

Post by gopalv »

abeppu wrote: post #159

I'm close to someone who teaches at a university, and they're making heavy use of in-room essays written in blue books. This ensures that the work is purely the students, but I think it also has the side-effect that the grader is also working manually. I kinda think maybe at earlier levels, most homework should be moved into the classroom and done on paper anyway? What's the point of homework if they're not going to…

> What's the point of homework if they're not going to do it themselves and they're not going to learn?

My theory is that most homework is given to ensure the parents take an active interest in the kids education.

The fact that the kid needs help to do it is part of the goal, but completely impractical in a small family with 2 working parents.

Unfortunately, the homework is all done in the after-care program, where the high school kids who work there spend the time getting the homework done.

Not exactly what the teacher intended.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#183

Post by SomeDaysBe »

redcobra762 wrote: post #143
nottorp wrote: post #4

Waiting for those people who post the "how do you use LLMS for X" questions on HN to come here and explain how this is a good thing.

Would you be upset if in the 70s you found out your sister was using a calculator to check her math homework?

If she was using it to check 24 + 7, then yes.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#184

Post by AndroTux »

Zak wrote: post #172

When I was in elementary school, my teachers told me it was very important to memorize multiplication tables because I wouldn't always have a calculator in my pocket. We know how that turned out. I asked an LLM the first example question (convert 3 minutes to seconds), and it provided not just the answer, but that there are 60 seconds per minutes, so that's 3 * 60 = 180. I don't think an 11 year old is harmed by that…

There’s a difference between not knowing multiplication and just refusing any logical thinking at all. We already see this a lot in adults today. Many are just too lazy to turn on their brain, because it’s easier to call, ask on Reddit or whatever, even if it takes ten times longer than just doing the thinking yourself.

This is just the perfection of that. And it’s suuuuper scary, because it trains you to be a brain dead monkey that literally believes anything ChatGPT tells you. And we know how that’ll work out.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#185

Post by corysama »

Some 15 years ago I recall some schools in California bragging about their success in flipping the school schedule around. They had students watch lectures at home as videos. Then during class they did "homework".

Seems like this method is going to become a necessity if students can just prompt "Hey GPT. Do my homework for me. Thanks." at home every day.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#187

Post by david38 »

Zak wrote: post #172

When I was in elementary school, my teachers told me it was very important to memorize multiplication tables because I wouldn't always have a calculator in my pocket. We know how that turned out. I asked an LLM the first example question (convert 3 minutes to seconds), and it provided not just the answer, but that there are 60 seconds per minutes, so that's 3 * 60 = 180. I don't think an 11 year old is harmed by that…

LLM’s are notoriously bad at math. My company tried it and the results were laughable.

A calculator eliminates the arithmetic part, thus doing “all” of “2+2”.

Half the point if a word problem is learning how to set up the arithmetic. “Convert 3 minutes to seconds”. You are learning that there are 60 seconds in a minute, that you have to use multiplication, and that the result is in seconds, not something else you need to convert.

The LLM does ALL of this for you. You literally just have to copy / paste.

Zero learning

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#188

Post by fragmede »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #167
fragmede wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we hypothesis perfect performance, the philosophical question is if that's a distinction without (or with) a difference. Perfect performance would simulate semantic understanding, no? More relevant to the real world though, how do we rate imperfect performance? If a Chinese Room that I have access to can make some logical leaps but not others, how do we rate this artificial intelligence? We have words to describe…

>Perfect performance would simulate semantic understanding, no? The thought experiment argues the exact opposite. The idea is you can have perfect Chinese but not understand a single word of what you are saying. The argument is that syntax (procedure based operation) and semantics (understanding) are distinct and separable. As you extend the scope of the Chinese room from a single task (e.g. Chinese conversation) to…

That's what Searle's argument is, but it's a thought experiment and there's no consensus among professional philosophers as to whether or not to believe it is true.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#189

Post by nradov »

lukeschlather wrote: post #164
Yoric wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have many teachers among my friends. So far, they're mostly powerless. If a student is creative, there is basically nothing that will prevent them from cheating at any homework/exam. My father, who was a math teacher, already faced the problem mid-90s, as cheap mobile phones became available in my country. Things have only gotten worse since then. ChatGPT is only one more brick in the wall.

The problem is tests/quizzes and especially standardized ones. They have never been good teaching tools, and teachers have been railroaded into using them because they provide a blunt way to measure outcomes at a population level. But real teaching is 1:1 and teachers have a lot of power, it's just stuff that doesn't scale and you can't mandate organizationally. But this has mostly always been the case. Trying to mea…

Tests/quizzes are good teaching tools. Students learn more effectively when they are frequently tested on the material.

https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/optimal-protocols-for-st...

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#190

Post by dowager_dan99 »

abeppu wrote: post #159

I'm close to someone who teaches at a university, and they're making heavy use of in-room essays written in blue books. This ensures that the work is purely the students, but I think it also has the side-effect that the grader is also working manually. I kinda think maybe at earlier levels, most homework should be moved into the classroom and done on paper anyway? What's the point of homework if they're not going to…

If we flipped the lecture/homework system upside down it would first solve some of the major issues with how we deliver education, but as a side effect prevent the appearance of doing the work while really it's just the student mindlessly copying prompts and responses.

Assign the material for outside the classroom. Use the in-person contact time to work through the problems, with a mix of small group, pairing and mentoring.

I believe Sal Khan is a big promoter of this approach, and it also largely mirrors how people work in their jobs too.

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