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In my life, I've witnessed three elite salespeople at work

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Re: In my life, I've witnessed three elite salespeople at work

#141
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how often "illegally" is the American Way. I only wish it were a joke.

What makes you think this is uniquely American versus human?

On the contrary, it’s the immigrants that understand it better than the native born.

Re: In my life, I've witnessed three elite salespeople at work

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but they also make it hard for a cynical exec to game the system, for instance by shorting the stock and then tanking the company on purpose.

This is exactly what the laws around fiduciary duty "really" cover. I say "really" because the term is often invoked to justify/excuse scummy behavior from executives, arguing that they're legally obligated to behave that way because of fiduciary duty. In reality it just means you must act in the interests of the company, largely to prevent this exact sort of scenario (or an exec just being butthurt or whatever).

Yes, though it goes a bit further than just a blanket 'in the interest of the company'.

Sometimes it's that, sometimes it's in the interested of the shareholders, sometimes it's also in the interest of (some) customers, etc.

Re: In my life, I've witnessed three elite salespeople at work

#143
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Articles like this are valued not based on how noble is the protagonist but based on how truthful is the account. The latter is of course not granted either but I would be even less inclined to believe a story of an airtight telemarketer. In general I think it's very easy to _not understand_ people i.e. "how could you". The interesting part for me is when I do understand: "oh this is how". From that perspective I enj…

To reward positive stories that include crime, just because other people "might also be doing it" is ehhh. That's literally what criminals tell themselves, that everyone else does it. For a liar and a cheater, it's basic modus operandi to tell you some of their lies to give themselves a veneer of honesty. Agree with you in some sense, it is what it is, but why trust anything else they say to "rescue the story"? That'…

Is it not that we grant that person no reward, and instead take from their story lessons to our benefit?

The little in the story that speaks about the author, is necessary as a vehicle to narrate the experience.

The crux of the story is sales, and how it worked. The core point was the dehumanization, as well as the people who are the most effective in this era.

Also, I can appreciate someones shoes, while acknowlding they are a terrible person. Style isnt the causative factor for criminality or bad decision making.

Re: In my life, I've witnessed three elite salespeople at work

#144
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appealing to be recorded in secret is a weird one to read in the morning. Another solution to your problem that respects the law is for them to not record you.

> Another solution to your problem that respects the law is for them to not record you You'd run a customer-service operation that has no record of who said what?

Where I live companies are required to get my explicit consent before recording me and are also required to continue the call if the only reason they would not is that I didn't consent to being recorded.

It'd be a bit silly if not as where I live I can also request them to delete the recording immediately after the call ends. So yes many businesses operate like this.

When you go to a shop and talk to the person there for help with a previous purchase they aren't recording your interaction, why is it so surprising?

Re: In my life, I've witnessed three elite salespeople at work

#145
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans surely do love to make things illegal.

The occasional, feeble, rarely enforced speed bumps that we occasionally throw up around some largely performative ideal that working people shouldn’t just get constantly ripped off via structural advantage for self-styled job creators almost always lead to temporary increases in broad based prosperity as judged by honest and humane notions of the common good for Res Publica. A limited but meaningful subset of the po…

Alas, the straw man you argue against doesn't exist. (Though my adopted homeland of Singapore probably comes closer than the so called Land of the Free.)

Remember: even Bill Gates had to fight for a decade or so to get his favourite car imported. And that was when he was the richest guy on the planet. Bloomberg and Romney lost their bids for the presidency against much poorer opponents with less support from the rich. You guys still have minimum wage laws on the books, too. Rent control and price controls ('anti-price gouging laws') are ever popular. To name just a few examples.

> This is a culture so extreme around its idea of private property and private enterprise that treating human beings as property is a habit of thought as a culture we just can’t seem to quit in spite of a bloody, declared civil war and a thousand violent skirmishes that don’t quite qualify as wars.

You know that (orthodox) economics is known as the dismal science because they opposed slavery? See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dismal_science

Please don't brand Milton Friedman as some kind of slavery advocate.

> Low effort quips from people who haven’t felt cold or hunger or illness recently enough to remember are a serious part of the problem.

I don't think they make much of a difference on way or another. But you are right, that thanks to relatively freer markets, more and more people can enjoy the ignorance of bliss of not knowing what hunger feels like. That's how progress looks like.

Re: In my life, I've witnessed three elite salespeople at work

#146

> I know a good salesman when I see one. I was, briefly, the No. 1 telemarketer in the United States. Oh neat, how? > Unlike many of my less successful colleagues, I quickly learned to take yes for an answer; though we were legally required to read a long list of mandatory disclosures to all our sales, I noticed that this often broke the spell and gave people an opening to back out or “wait and ask the wife about it.…

So... the thing that made him America's top telemarketer was... illegally omitting the disclosures... which everyone was doing... but also, it made him uniquely successful because many of his colleagues didn't do it? I'm getting the strangest feeling that maybe this guy isn't done peddling bullshit?

I thought it was a series of realizations - First he learned to stop sounding like he hated his job, and focus on making the other persons feelings. This got him to people saying "yes".

To close more, he started dropping the disclosures and sending people to the next department.

The point you are raising does make sense, I suppose the lesson for him was getting to yes, and then ensuring you dont blow the lead. Which I suppose is the core lesson to selling. You cant sell if people get out of the flow.

And he does allude to this, that the economy is small constant hustles that convince people to buy things, as opposed to the sterile idea of economic demand.

Re: In my life, I've witnessed three elite salespeople at work

#147
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The occasional, feeble, rarely enforced speed bumps that we occasionally throw up around some largely performative ideal that working people shouldn’t just get constantly ripped off via structural advantage for self-styled job creators almost always lead to temporary increases in broad based prosperity as judged by honest and humane notions of the common good for Res Publica. A limited but meaningful subset of the po…

Alas, the straw man you argue against doesn't exist. (Though my adopted homeland of Singapore probably comes closer than the so called Land of the Free.) Remember: even Bill Gates had to fight for a decade or so to get his favourite car imported. And that was when he was the richest guy on the planet. Bloomberg and Romney lost their bids for the presidency against much poorer opponents with less support from the rich…

It is beyond dispute that liberalizing the markets in a society is an almost guaranteed way to lift a society out of a confused manufacturing sector and into a much better organized manufacturing sector: markets are a much better way to price cars and consumer electronics than planning committee guesses. No one disputes that other than Jensen Huang.

But using a log scale and a ruler to apologize for flagrant grift is nothing to do with capitalism, markets, democracy, common sense, or humanity.

Rent seeking is the original sin of capitalism: don’t take my word for it, re-read your Adam Smith and pay attention this time.

And if by “you guys” you mean advocates for the broader public?

To the death.

Re: In my life, I've witnessed three elite salespeople at work

#148
elites in sales are a myth. it's a manufactured playground.

at least 50 % of customers were primed out of any natural fuck.

( natural/organic meaning intrinsic or emerging desires that are not anchored in any psycho-social perception/manipulation, after the fact of a more or less evolved consciousness/awareness of self )

and a great amount of your customers was fake to make you fucking love your job and feel that success.

Re: In my life, I've witnessed three elite salespeople at work

#149
post #57
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. In industry, the best salespersons are listeners and thinkers.

I mean the publishing industry. Is this like some junior writer practicing with a known article formula? Like junior devs do todo apps that end up flooding github.

And yet you read the whole thing.

Re: In my life, I've witnessed three elite salespeople at work

#150
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alas, the straw man you argue against doesn't exist. (Though my adopted homeland of Singapore probably comes closer than the so called Land of the Free.) Remember: even Bill Gates had to fight for a decade or so to get his favourite car imported. And that was when he was the richest guy on the planet. Bloomberg and Romney lost their bids for the presidency against much poorer opponents with less support from the rich…

It is beyond dispute that liberalizing the markets in a society is an almost guaranteed way to lift a society out of a confused manufacturing sector and into a much better organized manufacturing sector: markets are a much better way to price cars and consumer electronics than planning committee guesses. No one disputes that other than Jensen Huang. But using a log scale and a ruler to apologize for flagrant grift is…

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