Printf debugging is ok
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Printf debugging is ok
1–10 of 152 posts
Re: Printf debugging is ok
#2agree entirely that both techniques are useful and should be learned by programmers
one thing I think the "just do print debugging" folks miss is what a good teaching tool a visual debugger is: you can learn about what a call stack really is, step through conditionals, iterations, closures, etc and get a feel for how they really work
at some level being a good programmer means you can emulate the code in your head, and a good visual developer can really help new programmers develop that skill, especially if they aren't naturals
i emphasize the debugger in all the classes i teach for this reason
Re: Printf debugging is ok
#3Whatever works so I can fix it and be home on time. I will even print (in paper) the code and step through it with a pen. Again, whatever works.
Also, will we ever move forward from these sort of discussions? Back when I was a mechanic no one argued about basics troubleshooting strategies. We just aimed to learn them and apply them all (as necessary).
Re: Printf debugging is ok
#4Counterpoint: nope.
Logging is great for long term issue resolution. There's tracepoints/logpoints which let you refine the debugging experience in runtime without accidentally committing prints to the repo.
There are specific types of projects that are very hard to debug (I'm working on one right now), that's a valid exception but it also indicates something that should be fixed in our stack. Print debugging is a hack, do we use it? Sure. Is it OK to hack? Maybe. Should a hack be normalized? Nope.
Print debugging is a crutch that covers up bad logging or problematic debugging infrastructure. If you reach for it too much it probably means you have a problem.
Re: Printf debugging is ok
#5I've gotten an OS to run on a new platform with a debugging tool portfolio consisting of a handful of LEDs and a pushbutton. After getting to the point where I could printf() to the console felt like more than anyone could ever ask for.
Anecdote aside, it certainly doesn't hurt to be able to debug things without a debugger if it comes to that.
Re: Printf debugging is ok
#6TDD is ok, but LDD is better. If you can figure out what went wrong with your code from the logs, there's a non-negative chance that whoever gets the joy of maintaining said code might be able to as well
Re: Printf debugging is ok
#7all the rest of the stuff is okay but seriously? 2 finger typing? as a programmer? you're gonna be there for AAAGES and your keyboard probably runs a sidebusiness with how long it takes you to type
I know I'm stirring up shit here but there really are benefits to touch typing (I mean just think about it, using 10 fingers instead of 2 is gonna be so much faster assuming you have 10 dingers)
Re: Printf debugging is ok
#8Counterpoint: nope. Logging is great for long term issue resolution. There's tracepoints/logpoints which let you refine the debugging experience in runtime without accidentally committing prints to the repo. There are specific types of projects that are very hard to debug (I'm working on one right now), that's a valid exception but it also indicates something that should be fixed in our stack. Print debugging is a ha…
What is the difference between print debugging and logging? With most deployments setups now days you can pipe prints to some logging solution anyways.
Re: Printf debugging is ok
#9all the rest of the stuff is okay but seriously? 2 finger typing? as a programmer? you're gonna be there for AAAGES and your keyboard probably runs a sidebusiness with how long it takes you to type I know I'm stirring up shit here but there really are benefits to touch typing (I mean just think about it, using 10 fingers instead of 2 is gonna be so much faster assuming you have 10 dingers)
Touch typing is objectively better, but 2 finger is enough to have a career at programming, it's not what is going to hold you back.
I'd be more concerned about RSI than speed. You _really_ don't need to type fast for programming. If you do, your tools should be helping you do boilerplate more.
Re: Printf debugging is ok
#10all the rest of the stuff is okay but seriously? 2 finger typing? as a programmer? you're gonna be there for AAAGES and your keyboard probably runs a sidebusiness with how long it takes you to type I know I'm stirring up shit here but there really are benefits to touch typing (I mean just think about it, using 10 fingers instead of 2 is gonna be so much faster assuming you have 10 dingers)
9 fingers... Not 10, 9.