Whistleblower Binney says the NSA has dossiers on nearly every US citizen • Hacker News Board

Re: Whistleblower Binney says the NSA has dossiers on nearly every US citizen

#111

Post by TheCondor » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 1:27 PM UTC

olavk wrote: post #99

bobsy wrote: post #27

If this is true doesn't it mean that Bin Laden won the war on terror? Every time I go to the airport I think this. Those full body scanners? Thanks to Bin Laden, now you practically get strip searched for every flight. You have to take off your shoes. You cannot take drinks on a plane. You then have everyone on edge no matter where you go. You and a friend play CounterStrike. You get on the bus and start talking abou…

Why do you think that the ultimate goal of Bin Laden was to increase surveillance in the US and to annoy travelers at airports?

This and the other comments refer to "battles" in the war on terror, if you will.

I'm not sure it's how OBL planned but it does kind of look like he might have been happy with our trajectory.

Re: Whistleblower Binney says the NSA has dossiers on nearly every US citizen

#112

Post by debacle » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 1:36 PM UTC

mtgx wrote: post #96

kitsune_ wrote: post #79

Switzerland had a huge surveillance scandal during the 80's. It was named "Fichenskandal" or in English, "Secret files scandal". More than 700'000 people or organizations were targeted, usually people on the left: unions, feminists, environmentalists etc. A friend of my father runs an independent book store and he requested his files after the scandal was made public. He received a stack of paper over 10 inches high.…

Is there a good reason for any country to have spies at all, especially for internal matters? I feel that spying on other countries (let alone on own citizens) shouldn't exist at all, but it has become accepted by societies as something that the Governments just have to do, to "make their job easier", just like even FBI said recently that they'd prefer if they didn't need to get warrants, because it would make their…

The corporate/bureaucratic symbiosis means that spying on your citizens is seen as necessary to control the populace.

Re: Whistleblower Binney says the NSA has dossiers on nearly every US citizen

#113

Post by jberryman » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 1:42 PM UTC

tikhonj wrote: post #16

waiwai933 wrote: post #9

Ethics, morality and legality aside, I'd be really curious to see what information is actually stored in these "dossiers", besides (presumably) one's name, address, and other details that other branches of the government legitimately have.

Is that the sort of thing you can ask for with a FOIA request? If you have some spare time it might be worth trying--it certainly couldn't hurt. I'm not familiar enough with the actual procedure to say if it would be particularly difficult or not.

If you try you will get a form letter basically saying that spying on Americans is not in the NSA charter, so they don't have any info on you. Tried it in 2005-ish myself.

Re: Whistleblower Binney says the NSA has dossiers on nearly every US citizen

#114

Post by lwhi » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 1:56 PM UTC

I suppose a Facebook profile could correspond to 'dossier' in most senses of the word.

Re: Whistleblower Binney says the NSA has dossiers on nearly every US citizen

#115

Post by kennon » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 1:58 PM UTC

DanI-S wrote: post #110

kennon wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious why you think international spying is unnecessary. Until countries cease to compete for limited resources, it seems to me like an inevitability.

Why should it be considered morally acceptable by those who vote? When have we had the opportunity to vote on it?

I understood mtgx's question to be based on practical grounds, not moral ones. But in answer to your question, I think of espionage as something akin to the military. Perhaps in an ideal world neither would be necessary, but unfortunately the world is not a utopia.

Thus, from a realistic standpoint, spying is sort of like doing market research for a startup. It allows you to make predictive decisions instead of reactive ones.

Re: Whistleblower Binney says the NSA has dossiers on nearly every US citizen

#116

Post by mindcrime » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 2:00 PM UTC

pyoung wrote: post #59

ilaksh wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, that was an insulting way to put it. Sorry if I offended people unnecessarily. I have made similar comments before, hoping for some type of discussion, and had my comment buried so that no one would even see it, which makes discussion impossible. So I was actually hoping that my comment would somehow remain visible. This is really about what people believe, which isn't something you can reason about. Yo…

Whoa!!! Hold on there a second: "This is really about what people believe, which isn't something you can reason about." I would hope that reason and logic take precedent over existing belief. At least among the somewhat rational subset of individuals that tend to lurk in these corners.

I would hope that reason and logic take precedent over existing belief. At least among the somewhat rational subset of individuals that tend to lurk in these corners.

Depends on what you mean by "belief"/ Some things that people refer to as "beliefs" are probably more properly called "principles". And if two people disagree on fundamental principles, it's hard for them to reach any sort of agreement, even if they both use rational reasoning and logic. They're starting from different places, and trying to go to a different place, and overlap may be rare.

Take, for example, somebody with a utilitarian "what matters most is the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people" view, vs. an individualist anarchist whose fundamental principle is "no one should use force or fraud to force someone to do something against their will."

On many issues, those two people just aren't going to be able to agree on much, even if they both use logically sound arguments.

Also, on a different note, there is research out there (I don't have citations at my fingertips, sorry) suggesting that it's pretty rare for people to change deeply held beliefs, even when confronted with overwhelming evidence. It seems to be a facet of human nature that we don't change beliefs very easily.

Re: Whistleblower Binney says the NSA has dossiers on nearly every US citizen

#117

Post by mindcrime » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 2:03 PM UTC

Angostura wrote: post #54

ilaksh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The War on Terror" I wish that people would learn what "The War on Terror" really is. The United States IS like other countries, including China, now and in the past. In 2001 there was an event in the United States which was very similar to the 1933 Reichstag fire in Berlin. Very few people can accept that reality, so this comment will probably be buried. I don't think people even know what a State is. The harsh tru…

You neglected to add those all important words "wake up sheeple". You're making extraordinary claims regarding the parallels with the Reichtag fire. I won't ask for extraordinary evidence, just reasonable evidence.

You're making extraordinary claims regarding the parallels with the Reichtag fire. I won't ask for extraordinary evidence, just reasonable evidence.

Evidence of what, exactly? Comparing 9/11 to the Reichstag fire is an analogy, and - to anyone familiar with the history of both - the analogy seems to fit. No, the outcome here hasn't (yet) been as dramatic as electing a Hitler and establishing a Nazi empire. But the generalized point of "dramatic event seen as attack on country is used to justify expansion of government power, new limitations on civil liberties, etc." seems to clearly be common to both situations, no?

Re: Whistleblower Binney says the NSA has dossiers on nearly every US citizen

#118

Post by mindcrime » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 2:08 PM UTC

mchmch wrote: post #87

Angostura wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You neglected to add those all important words "wake up sheeple". You're making extraordinary claims regarding the parallels with the Reichtag fire. I won't ask for extraordinary evidence, just reasonable evidence.

How about 1500+ experts including Registered Architects, Structural Engineers, Scientists, etc who are willing to go on camera and agree that there is no way the official story 9/11 is possible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBCu_pvhnzQ

OK, I haven't personally checked into every one these guys, but every time I've seen a list like this, when anyone has bothered to actually check credentials on the people listed, it's turned out that they were either specialists in totally unrelated fields with little knowledge of building construction and collapse, or they were "professors" at Devry Institute or University of Phoenix, or they were total quacks, or they specialized in building stick built wood-frame construction single-family homes, which have almost nothing in common with skyscrapers, etc., etc., etc.

OTOH, I was a firefighter for a decade or so in the 1990's, and we spent a lot of time studying building collapse, because collapsing buildings are one of the biggest threats to firefighter health & safety on the fireground... and everything I saw on TV on the morning of 9/11 was 100% consistent with what we were taught about how and why buildings collapse.

So color me extremely skeptical of any of this "9/11 conspiracy" stuff, at least as far as the details about the tower collapse.

Re: Whistleblower Binney says the NSA has dossiers on nearly every US citizen

#119

Post by bsphil » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 2:08 PM UTC

euroclydon wrote: post #90

kamaal wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Muslim here. I never understood both sides and their actions. I mean I find both Islamic fundamentalism and American actions all round globe both equally dumb. I don't think OBL ever had it as an explicit aim to pull down US militarily or culturally transform US into a Islamic state. That is impossible, and I assume somebody like him already understood that. I guess his aim was to drag US into a war and then reduce t…

Its actually surprising that US fell for it. Yep. Bush would have been a hero if he hadn't fallen for it. Compassionate conservatism, expressed in Medicare Part C. Tax cuts combined with modest military expansion would have held the deficit in check. But remember the pundits saying, "this one calles for boots on the ground"? Even Jon Stewart showed a clip of Bush or someone making a compassionate statement, and comme…

Richard Clark (who had worked for Reagan, Bush Sr., and Clinton) had the right idea of small targeted attacks rather than a widespread military invasion. He even warned the WH about al Qaeda months prior to 9/11, but he got demoted and vilified under Bush's administration and supporters.

Re: Whistleblower Binney says the NSA has dossiers on nearly every US citizen

#120

Post by glanch » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 2:09 PM UTC

euroclydon wrote: post #90

kamaal wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Muslim here. I never understood both sides and their actions. I mean I find both Islamic fundamentalism and American actions all round globe both equally dumb. I don't think OBL ever had it as an explicit aim to pull down US militarily or culturally transform US into a Islamic state. That is impossible, and I assume somebody like him already understood that. I guess his aim was to drag US into a war and then reduce t…

Its actually surprising that US fell for it. Yep. Bush would have been a hero if he hadn't fallen for it. Compassionate conservatism, expressed in Medicare Part C. Tax cuts combined with modest military expansion would have held the deficit in check. But remember the pundits saying, "this one calles for boots on the ground"? Even Jon Stewart showed a clip of Bush or someone making a compassionate statement, and comme…

"Fell for it"?

It's easy to "fall for it" when you are in the position to make a LOT of money for that fall. Cheney. Halliburton. Exclusive government contracts. Sickening.