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US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

theguardian.com

371–380 of 390 posts

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No just lots but almost all. 63% of violent offenders reoffend but that actually undercounts the amount of crimes that are caused by repeat offenders because there are some people offending 10+ times. A three strikes rule would eliminate nearly half of all violent crime because nearly half of violent crime is committed by people who have already been convicted of 3+ other violent crimes.

In the Seattle area there’s a huge trend of reoffending criminals performing larger crimes as time goes, because they face no real consequences. This is happening because activist judges, who typically run unopposed and don’t face consequences themselves, are releasing dangerous criminals back into the public. As a recent example, an activist judge released a teen who committed felony robbery back into the public, ag…

Statistically, across the USA, a large majority of the judges are ex-prosecutors and definitely not "activists." I've personally known dozens of criminal court judges and I can't think of a single one that routinely sentences on the low side or would be considered an "activist." Even the defense lawyers I know that become judges usually sentence punitively, as if to show they aren't biased.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#372

> One in three U.S. adults has been arrested by age 23. Does that seem crazy to anyone else? I'm in Ireland and can't think of one person in my extended family and friends that has any interaction with the police beyond routine insurance/DUI checkpoints or reporting incidents like car accidents.

When I went to a boxing gym in Maryland there were a lot of young black guys. For them going to prison was totally normal thing. Often they themselves had been to prison or their relatives. Some had scars from gunshots. I can’t even imagine how it is to grow up in that environment.

Having been locked up, I was regularly the only white guy in a whole building. It's completely normalized for Black youth to go to jail. I hesitate to say it, but it's practically considered a rite of passage. It's really sad. Some of these kids are absolutely smart as fuck and could do anything with their lives if their environment hadn't failed them.

When they get to jail, every one of their friends is there already, so it's way easier for them to process and deal with than it is for some random middle-class white dude.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you're familiar with the topic. Nearly every single person who goes to jail will be released and may become your neighbor. I suggest you research the subject instead of pulling anecdotes from your ass. " the stats don't indicate any persistent institutional success despite decades of effort and rotating fashions" This is the exact problem that fuels mass incarceration and costs us tax payers and society…

"schools have incentive to fill desks. schools have incentive to not educate. students go to school and become worse because they're in a bad place"

It's an interesting suggestion, but not a good analogy. In many areas schools actually begin the prison pipeline. Children don't stay in school longer or continually cycle in and out. In poor areas they go to jail.

It's clear you hate people. Most people in jail haven't even been convicted of a crime. Nearly all plea, and rarely any go to trial.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was locked up. I've worked with offenders coming straight out of prison. A majority will return to prison. Why? Several reasons. 1) When you get out, everything is stacked against you. Despite what you hear, there is almost zero support for those released. You've almost certainly lost all your support networks (family, friends). You have no money, no ID, no bank account, no debit card, no cellphone, no email addres…

Various by system - South Africa has a 9 out of 10 recidivism rate, the US 7 out of 10, Finland 3 out of 10. China, reportedly, has just over 1 out of 10 .. although the reason there is they apparently execute serial recidivists. Finland puts some effort into looking what circumstances land citizens in jail and addressing those and post time served support.

Yes, sorry, my comment is specific to the USA. A lot of countries have better and/or different (China) ways of dealing with recidivism.

It's horrible that if you go to prison once, then that's basically your whole life from now on. Most people will never escape the revolving door.

Every single person I know who has been to prison is counting down the days until they end up locked up again.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Various by system - South Africa has a 9 out of 10 recidivism rate, the US 7 out of 10, Finland 3 out of 10. China, reportedly, has just over 1 out of 10 .. although the reason there is they apparently execute serial recidivists. Finland puts some effort into looking what circumstances land citizens in jail and addressing those and post time served support.

Yes, sorry, my comment is specific to the USA. A lot of countries have better and/or different (China) ways of dealing with recidivism. It's horrible that if you go to prison once, then that's basically your whole life from now on. Most people will never escape the revolving door. Every single person I know who has been to prison is counting down the days until they end up locked up again.

No need to apologise, the contrast is worthy of some reflection.

Australia does somewhat better than the US, but it's sharply broken on various demographics leading to rate quotes ranging from 32%, to 50%, to 60% (close to the US) depending on which populations are focused on.

FWiW the US inspires much health, education, prison, etc. policy here .. albeit more often as a counter point or warning.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#377
post #35
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll vary a lot by demographic. It's not that 1/3 of every group of US adults has ever been arrested, it's that there are some groups where hardly ever have and some groups where a huge fraction have, and it averages out to 1/3. In particular, I bet that if you look at poor black men who live in US cities the figure is very very high. Maybe it's close to 100%.[1] If you look at middle-class white women living in the…

>[1] I did some crude arithmetic on the figures at https://www.sentencingproject.org/app/uploads/2022/08/Americ ... and got an estimate that 108% of black men in the US have a criminal record. That seems unlikely to be correct :-) How are you calculating the proportion of black men with criminal records? The pdf mentions that black men are 6x more likely to be incarcerated , but that's not the same as having a crimin…

That link doesn't point directly to data, only an expired event. What is the link please? For state-level data, did you mean: https://www.sentencingproject.org/research/detailed-state-da...

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was already being held in prison so I see no reason to further publish until a trial or settlement hit. But let's assume he's charged and released on bail or otherwise. In that case, I think it's reasonable for the cops to notify the organizations he's involved with of the pending trial and for a judge to put a restraining order on him. I didn't think anything further needs to happen until he's found guilty or set…

Yeah in this case the guy wasn't being held. I'd like to be able to differentiate between "permanent record in a newspaper" and "responsible disclosure", but I'm not sure where the line is. In your case for example, what if a parent went to the media? Or what if one of the hundreds of affected parents started publicly campaigning for the person to be locked up? I think there should be limits, perhaps such as criminal…

> what if a parent went to the media?

I think so long as the media outlet isn't publishing the name of the accused then I don't know how much I care about what they are publishing. Stuff blows over and is especially hard to put together if there's not a name/face with a story. I'd suspect that without a name/photo that a media outlet would simply not publish anything. If it's linked to an org I could see a "Boy scout leader accused of CSAM" and I'm not entirely against that. I think conversations about what orgs in charge of kids are doing to prevent abuse are valuable ones.

> Or what if one of the hundreds of affected parents started publicly campaigning for the person to be locked up?

I think that campaign is probably fine and publishing "100 parents calling for the arrest of a boy scout leader" is also probably fine so long as the name isn't published. There is a bit of a fuzzy line, though. For example, if a TV news station decided to cover the issue it might be easy for a parent to slip in the name which wouldn't be great.

To me, the biggest problem is how long such a name ends up staying in the public consciousness. Particularly if the individual ends up with a not guilty ruling.

> I think there should be limits, perhaps such as criminalising the sharing of that information unless it's from the police/courts.

I disagree about the police/courts as that's too early in the criminal justice process. In my book, the name getting published should happen after a conviction/guilty plea and not before.

> I don't think it even matters if the secretary at your school kept the person's name a secret, as people will jump to conclusions and start accusing others, and the whole problem here is that unfounded accusations can still cause real harm to people.

I agree. But I also don't think it's a huge problem because I've, frankly, already forgotten this individual's name. I'm sure with a bunch of extra effort I could find them and a photo (since they were convicted). If someone is accused and not convicted, then the absence of their name in a newspaper/news report would mean that it'd be quite hard to actually link their past accusation to themselves. That, IMO, is the ideal balance. That the public knows the name isn't as important as it is that if I google "cogman10" it doesn't come up with an old arrest record with my photo and "cogman10 accused of murdering a health insurance CEO" even though I wasn't found guilty.

Where this gets tricky is what do we do with a parent that decides to setup a "cogman10 accused of murdering a CEO!" webpage. Part of what's tricky here is such a webpage would be factual. Further, for very powerful people/orgs I don't like the idea that they could sue into the ground anyone that publishes something negative against them. For example, imagine an organization with rampant problems of sexual abuse but whenever it comes up they immediately settle with an NDA to silence the victims and then sues anyone that publishes information about it.

I don't have a perfect solution here. I think this is probably something better handled not by the legal system but rather journalistic ethics... but I get that that is already the system we have and it currently sucks.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#379
post #148

Reminds me of a laugh-out-loud closing paragraph in a 2009 NYT article about the clash between Wikipedia & German lawyers over some infamous murderers' right-to-be-forgotten. https://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/13/us/13wiki.html Read the whole thing for maximum effect, but for me it beautifully demonstrates the contrast between the USA/Wikipedia/NYT ethos of "the truth is always printable and your speech is by default 'o…

Here's the archive link: https://archive.ph/5978

It was well worth the read!

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