Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are trying: Purism is selling the Librem 5 USA at $1,600 From the site: "The Librem 5 USA has Made in USA Electronics with all fabrication and manufacturing done at the Purism facility. Individual components used in fabrication are sourced direct from chip makers and parts distributors. We use US companies with US fabrication whenever possible. Most distributors are based in the US with the exception of large in…
>Purism is selling the Librem 5 USA at $1,600 That's actually worse than it seems on the surface. $1,600 might seem only twice as expensive as a "normal" phone (eg. iPhone 16, $799), but if you look at the specs it's much closer to a low-end phone that sells for >$100. For instance the redmi a3[1] sells for ~$75 and is better in every aspect CPU, GPU, display, memory, storage, battery. [1] https://www.gsmarena.com/xi…
China is the manufacturing superpower
261–270 of 315 posts
Re: China is the manufacturing superpower
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I would personally like to eliminate allocations of resources that put me out of business So would travel agents, real estate agents and car dealerships. Just because a change in allocation of resources or production would end businesses / jobs doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing. I'm not arguing whether this specific policy is good or bad, but mainly that the argument don't do it because "it would cost jobs so…
>So would travel agents, real estate agents and car dealerships. Yes, but these people also provide good services. I think car dealerships might be the best bad example out of these because car manufacturers don't deal directly with customers. However, I think the fact is that the manufacturers who set it up like this don't want to deal with customers, and they establish dealerships that agree to a certain quality of…
No, this was not what the manufacturers wanted. States set up franchise laws to prevent car makers from directly selling their cars and they generally are not viewed as benefiting the producer or consumer:
>...Economists have characterized these regulations as a form of rent-seeking that extracts rents from manufacturers of cars, increases costs for consumers, and limits entry of new car dealerships while raising profits for incumbent car dealers.[2] Research shows that as a result of these laws, retail prices for cars are higher than they otherwise would be.[2] [3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_dealerships_in_the_United_...
Re: China is the manufacturing superpower
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
People buy iPhones for their software, which is all made here. Otherwise all phones are black rectangles. The hardware isn’t that important.
it's the opposite. People buy iPhones and Apple products for the quality of their hardware and the cost of the devices themselves reflects this. Apple is one of the least software focused tech companies in the world. Everyone except for American teens obsessed with the colors of their chat bubbles uses WhatsApp, Telegram or FB Messenger and other completely platform independent apps. Nobody's ever bought an iphone fo…
Re: China is the manufacturing superpower
#264Re: China is the manufacturing superpower
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
>So would travel agents, real estate agents and car dealerships. Yes, but these people also provide good services. I think car dealerships might be the best bad example out of these because car manufacturers don't deal directly with customers. However, I think the fact is that the manufacturers who set it up like this don't want to deal with customers, and they establish dealerships that agree to a certain quality of…
>...However, I think the fact is that the manufacturers who set it up like this don't want to deal with customers, and they establish dealerships that agree to a certain quality of service that the manufacturer wants associated with their name. No, this was not what the manufacturers wanted. States set up franchise laws to prevent car makers from directly selling their cars and they generally are not viewed as benefi…
It might be like that, or it might not. Maybe the car manufacturers take a public view that's different from their private view. Why would a state demand extra hurdles that cost its residents more money? Could it have anything to do with creating barriers to entry for other manufacturers to sell their cars in that state, basically making it difficult to buy a car that isn't part of an established brand?
I think manufacturers actually vary their opinions sometimes. If they are new without many resources, they might prefer to sell direct to customer. If they are mature, it could be looked at two ways. On one hand there is a lot of work to do in order to sell and support the vehicles that can't be done in a centralized fashion. They can afford to do the work themselves by setting up a bunch of dealerships all over the country. But it is questionable whether the manufacturer can actually do it cheaper than the individual dealers. As for this:
>Research shows that as a result of these laws, retail prices for cars are higher than they otherwise would be.
There are three points I have for you to consider. For one, is it possible for people to get service from dealerships that provides value that is hard to appreciate? For example, they can fix issues quickly without shipping the car off, develop relationships with customers to help them fill their needs, do trade-ins (how would that work when dealing with a manufacturer directly?), or any number of other things that we know they do for customers. Secondly, how is this research conducted if car dealerships are mandated by law? Finally, if the manufacturer takes on the dealership role, it has to bear basically the same costs as the independent dealer. So where is the actual savings going to come from? Do you think you can negotiate with a factory outlet to get a better price?
Here's another thing you might want to consider. I know it's going to sound crazy, but in some cases people are served better by allowing prices to fluctuate. How? Well, the people more willing to buy a particular car (with a supply constraint) are willing to pay more, and that is only feasible if the seller has scope to negotiate. If there is no scope to change prices then the cars just go out with equal priority, possibly depriving someone of their dream car while someone else who appreciates it less is the one who got it first. The individual sellers on the other hand have varying supplies of cars from the manufacturer. There are similar benefits to the individual dealers in having that flexibility, although that doesn't matter in the question of whether or not independent dealers should exist.
Re: China is the manufacturing superpower
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem in China's case, is that there's a lot of evidence that China doesn't even care whether or not it's paid back. One, the loans were given often in dollars. Which China found itself with a surplus of the past few decades. With no convenient way of ridding themselves of those dollars without significant pain, Chinese strategists hit on the brilliant plan of "loans". Two, and more importantly, the loans were…
roads and bridges to ports are exactly what imf and world bank loan do too, for obvious reasons frankly this whole comment reads as historically less informed
Re: China is the manufacturing superpower
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also don't forget U.S. debt to China. the picture is painted clear of who depends on who.
China has $774B of US debt. The US total debt is $36T. 2% is not control of anything. That is smaller than the daily trading volume. China used to hold more but sold it recently.
Re: China is the manufacturing superpower
#268this is amazing and filled with facts that i wish everyone arguing the point that china cant overtake U.S. in economy or world superpowers would read. The facts are there, there is not much hiding around the corner, all of the true indication is in front of us. Yes. the article states U.S. still holds the title for world superpower by military size and capabilities. That's not to say that china cant catch up in no ti…
> everyone arguing the point that china cant overtake U.S. in economy Surely nobody halfway serious is arguing that. The faction about to take power in the USA is tilting at the "woke ideology" windmill, talks openly of deporting a big chunk of the workforce and does not seem to understand how tariffs work. Even if you ignore all that, China has 4-5x the population (for now!) and is by all measures has a highly devel…
Re: China is the manufacturing superpower
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I visited China some years ago "3N" was also popular. Same logo font and color, but at least they tried to avoid blatantly infringing the genuine brand.
I imagine most courts in the US would, in fact, find “3N” as blatantly infringing the 3M trademark.
Re: China is the manufacturing superpower
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
>...However, I think the fact is that the manufacturers who set it up like this don't want to deal with customers, and they establish dealerships that agree to a certain quality of service that the manufacturer wants associated with their name. No, this was not what the manufacturers wanted. States set up franchise laws to prevent car makers from directly selling their cars and they generally are not viewed as benefi…
>No, this was not what the manufacturers wanted. States set up franchise laws to prevent car makers from directly selling their cars and they generally are not viewed as benefiting the producer or consumer It might be like that, or it might not. Maybe the car manufacturers take a public view that's different from their private view. Why would a state demand extra hurdles that cost its residents more money? Could it h…
Maybe without the government forcing the manufacturers to go through 3rd party dealerships, they would still use them, but how about removing the laws and see?
>... Why would a state demand extra hurdles that cost its residents more money?
As the wikipedia article points out, this is really a textbook case of rent seeking. This is not what I would consider a controversial opinion.
Rather than hypothesize reasons why the current system is good, maybe first read through the 2 links referenced in the wikipedia article:
https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/jep.24.3.233
https://www.justice.gov/atr/economic-effects-state-bans-dire...
Note that the second paper is written by the anti-trust division of the Dept of Justice.