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US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

theguardian.com

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Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#271

Post by dragonwriter »

nyolfen wrote: post #264
EasyMark wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and a lot overestimate the percentage private prison systems greatly. However, I think systems like Alabama that abuse prisoners to output widgets for corporations should be dealt with by the Feds as well. It's clearly cruel and unusual punishment. It's a complicated issue but calling prisoners "slaves" is a far left talking point that they continuously use with no nuance allowed.

that labor is not compelled and is in fact a privilege; they are given absurdly low wages, but the jobs are still desirable vs sitting in a cell. misbehavior results in privilege revocation.

The labor is compelled; the statute law, regulations, and executive orders prohibit the incarcerated from refusing the work and authorize punishment for them doing so (including for refusing assignments to unpaid labor), despite Alabama finally abolishing involuntary servitude in its Constitution in 2022.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#272

Post by pyrophane »

bb88 wrote: post #177

IRL I knew someone who was charged with child sexual abuse. He went to prison awaiting trial, but the prosecution dropped the charges before it got there. He was released and went about his life. Meanwhile his mug shot photo in the local paper was the number one google search result for his name. And then it reached syndication for other news sites as well. Ideally those news paper articles should be updated to say t…

I know that there is the saying that goes something like “a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich,” but at least there is an acknowledgment there that being publically accused of a crime can come with a pretty high cost to the accused, and that is worth some process.

I served in a grand jury in NY and it was overall a pretty positive experience. Yes, the standard is lower and at times it can feel like a rubber stamp, but we did refuse to indict in two cases where we decided the DA failed to get us to “more likely than not.”

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#273

Post by coding123 »

scarab92 wrote: post #252
bko wrote: post #219

I wish newspapers were more concerned about being an objective system of record rather than trying to push social goals by helping rewrite history. They should post follow-ups for those wrongly convicted or after the fact caveats but completely memory holeing news stories strikes me as deeply disturbing

I would like them to refrain from naming people until/unless they are actually convicted. Heck, I would probably go a step further and update defamation laws to make publishing allegations (legal or otherwise) considered equivalent to making allegations. Far too many lives have been ruined by media “just reporting on allegations”

Lol the conviction rate would drop, as they count on everyone knowing about it to pre mess with the jury.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#274

Post by bdangubic »

BurningFrog wrote: post #262
bdangubic wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rebuttals are never read by anyone. there are numerous examples of this like in our modern age a completely bogus story will “go viral” and will be shared / read by millions and millions while a retraction will go completely unnoticed. even more serious, bogus scientific studies like the one that started the whole “vaccines cause autism” while fully disputed cannot be undone with a retraction/rebuttal

In my imagined system, the rebuttal/comment is displayed right next to the original story.

it won’t be read as it came after the original story and is no longer “interesting.”

imagine if say Diddy got exonerated of all charges against him and leaves jail tonight. subsequently imagine every story written since his arrests gets a disclaimer “the accused was cleared of all charges” - that gon help Diddy in any way? perhaps Diddy is a bad example but it don’t matter where you put the rebuttal - it will be completely ignored

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#275

Post by doctorpangloss »

luckylion wrote: post #20
doctorpangloss wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can figure this for anything, and prepare to be shocked. The variables are the number of incidents per period, the population during that period, and the expected duration an incident could occur. For example, in San Francisco, there are about 4700 car related injuries and deaths per year; about 800000 people; and the life expectancy is high at 83. This gives you 41 years for a cumulative 25% chance to have been…

> For example, in San Francisco, there are about 4700 car related injuries and deaths per year; about 800000 people; 800k permanent residents. > In 2019, prior to the COVID-19 pandemic more than 26 million visitors travelled to San Francisco. That changes your statistics quite a bit.

If you include all 26m visitors, the duration that an event could occur correspondingly gets much smaller, from 83 years to whatever the average stay is, which might be days. So it turns out to be about the same.

Anyway, you can Google “how does insurance modeling work” and see for yourself. There are whole teams of people who do this modeling. I am just sharing a simple and representative model, better than to an order of magnitude.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#276

Post by teddyh »

watwut wrote: post #259
worik wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> schools will not allow the parents of a student that has a record to come on school campus It is even wider than that. I have noticed in my wider circle of friends. Deciding somebody is "bad" and ostracising them. Often when people are at their most vulnerable and need to wrapped in love by their friends they get the opposite.

People kicking someone out of their immediate circle is not a new development. It always existed - both for good reasons and bad reasons.

It has become much more common in the last, say, 10 years, than it ever was. It used to be an extreme last resort, now people talk about it like it’s the obvious first step. Discussed previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32223003>

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#277

Post by pvaldes »

cj wrote: post #67
evujumenuk wrote: post #37

I understand this is the general policy in a few places, like Germany. The general idea seems to be that it is more beneficial to a society if criminals are given a viable avenue to lead non-criminal lives again, with the alternative being people going "ah fuck it, I guess I'm a criminal now". I'm surprised at this concept spreading in the US, since the system would generally benefit from having perpetual perpetrator…

The article isn’t strictly talking about prisoners. In the example in the article, a kid vandalized a tombstone in a graveyard, and can’t find a job years later.

Hiding it is the wrong way. Nobody cares about kids having stupid ideas. Erasing the entry closes the opportunity of providing a reasonable explanation and showing repent, that in fact could help highlight the candidate among other.

If employers still care... is a red flag. The case tells about a person that 1) has anger problems, 2) never mastered any skills valued by employers, and 3) never cultured friends wanting to vouch for him.

In sum, not the type that employers enjoy as coworker. Newspapers aren't necessarily the problem here.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#278

Post by scarab92 »

bko wrote: post #265
scarab92 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like them to refrain from naming people until/unless they are actually convicted. Heck, I would probably go a step further and update defamation laws to make publishing allegations (legal or otherwise) considered equivalent to making allegations. Far too many lives have been ruined by media “just reporting on allegations”

Or they should just report newsworthy public items in an unbiased way and let people decide

Deciding on the accuracy of claims is difficult. We have complicated and lengthy judicial processes that attempt this, and they still make frequent mistakes.

Saying it’s okay to defame people with an “allegedly” disclaimer and relying on the public to somehow do what even our courts cannot, is willfully ignorant.

Publishing an allegation should be legally equivalent to making an allegation.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#279

Post by MattGaiser »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #263
Yeul wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before things like the FBI and the telegraph it was quite common for Americans to find a new life in another state. You could be married in New York but nobody in Montana would know unless they actively started an investigation. The world has become a village.

The US used to believe in second chances. Now it believes in maximum retribution. Unless you are big business. Then not only will you get a second chance, but the government will fund it.

Did it ever believe in second chances or was it just a reality of distances and poor communications technology?

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#280

Post by engineer_22 »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #263
Yeul wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before things like the FBI and the telegraph it was quite common for Americans to find a new life in another state. You could be married in New York but nobody in Montana would know unless they actively started an investigation. The world has become a village.

The US used to believe in second chances. Now it believes in maximum retribution. Unless you are big business. Then not only will you get a second chance, but the government will fund it.

I don't believe that's true
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