China is the manufacturing superpower • Hacker News Board

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#191

Post by coliveira » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 4:39 PM UTC

_kava wrote: post #70

pm90 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly. The reality of the political situation though is that China is an authoritarian country ruled by the PRC, increasingly acting more like a dictatorship. While China’s economy, society and people have 100% the right to grow as much as they would like, those of us living in (sonewhat) liberal democracies would still want to contain the power of the PRC (and the cult of Xi Jinping).

> liberal democracies would still want to contain the power of the PRC (and the cult of Xi Jinping) I am not Chinese but I still find this comment hilariously offensive and tone-deaf. I can say almost without a doubt that the US has a "tremendous" issue with cult-of-personality right now. But I don't see Chinese or other countries attacking or trying to "contain" this. The US is still treated as a nation, unified in…

Most Americans are incapable of seeing the double standards of their own culture. Unfortunately for them, the rest of the world is well aware of this.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#192

Post by bigthymer » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 4:39 PM UTC

thruway516 wrote: post #114

treebeard901 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any non-nuclear prolonged conventional war will see U.S. ammo and shipbuilding far surpassed by Chinas manufacturing base and it isnt even close. The U.S. plan was to cut off oil shipments and food if this happened. Now China can likely have a Navy capable of guarding oil shipments from the Middle East all the way to Chinese ports. Everyone in the U.S. just assumes that they did it in 1940 so they can just do it agai…

You might be right. But a major 21st century conflict is likely going to be very different from past conflicts and we still don't know what that will look like. We're getting a few glimpses from the Ukraine conflict - drones, social media - but who knows what else. Having a numerical advantage in conventional arms might be the equivalent of having superior cavalry at the onset of WWI

> We're getting a few glimpses from the Ukraine conflict - drones, social media - but who knows what else

Actually, from the assessments that I have read, while new technology and drones have made a meaningful splash, it seems like manpower and the ability to produce large quantities of artillery shells have been the true determiner of the tides. The lesson learned thus far is that considerations from the past still matter.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#193

Post by audunw » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 4:40 PM UTC

kelipso wrote: post #137

treebeard901 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any non-nuclear prolonged conventional war will see U.S. ammo and shipbuilding far surpassed by Chinas manufacturing base and it isnt even close. The U.S. plan was to cut off oil shipments and food if this happened. Now China can likely have a Navy capable of guarding oil shipments from the Middle East all the way to Chinese ports. Everyone in the U.S. just assumes that they did it in 1940 so they can just do it agai…

In that scenario, they would use Russia rather than Middle East for oil shipments in the first place.

How far in the future are we talking about?

Russia doesn’t have the capacity to transport that much oil by land. It’d take years to build that infrastructure and it’s not even clear that China is at all interested in supporting huge investments that make them that dependent on Russia. Keep in mind that China and Russia are not fundamentally friends.. Russia is still holding territory that belonged to China, and that China wouldn’t hesitate to take back if they saw an opportunity.

Unless they can transport by sea by the arctic route year round (could eventually be enabled by climate change), the only way is to go south. Which is a far more vulnerable route than oil from the Middle East.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#194

Post by whimsicalism » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 4:41 PM UTC

tivert wrote: post #78

csomar wrote: post #57

One thing people are not aware of and am curious of how big it really is: China manufacturing laundry. Essentially, goods are manufactured in China, then laundered to a third-party country and then exported to the US/EU. This come in two flavors, legal laundry where the local manufacturer satisfies the conditions; and illegal one where bribes are paid to pass goods. > https://antidumping.vn/eu-chinabike-duty-hits-ind…

> One thing people are not aware of and am curious of how big it really is: China manufacturing laundry. Essentially, goods are manufactured in China, then laundered to a third-party country and then exported to the US/EU. IIRC, a lot of stuff that's labeled "Made in Singapore" is/was basically that.

frankly i don’t really see many things at all that say “made in singapore”

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#195

Post by giardini » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 4:44 PM UTC

_7acn wrote: post #178

I remember how until quite recently, the West viewed the East, particularly China, as a backward region. People would even dismissively use the term 'Chinese junk'. In a remarkably short time, that perception has completely flipped. Now it's the West that seems to be falling behind...

MaxGripe says "...that perception has completely flipped"

I avoid goods made in mainland China but seek out those made in Taiwan b/c they are exquisitely tooled. Both are Chinese but mainland manufactury severely lags Taiwan's.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#196

Post by whimsicalism » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 4:44 PM UTC

cipher_accompt wrote: post #157

ChumpGPT wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Canada and Mexico are guilty of this. For years they would import products and do some light assembly and label it as Made in Canada or Mexico. Since Canada gives China Most Favored Nation status, importers can avoid duties and export into the USA since there is a Free Trade Agreement(NAFTA). It took a while for US Customs to crack down on this but it finally did and they now pay very close attention to where th…

Is the problem Canada and Mexico, or is it corporations and business elites exploiting loopholes and abusing the system? Manufacturing in Canada was destroyed by competition in China. The root issue is the unchecked market power of businesses and the complete lack of repercussions for corporations and business elites that destroy industries, social systems, and deplete natural resources—without accountability for lon…

the real problem is this poorly planned effort to make the US a manufacturing nation via political fiat in the face of all reason rather than accepting economic realities about comparative advantage in manufacturing

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#197

Post by api » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 4:44 PM UTC

mahirsaid wrote: post #73

this is amazing and filled with facts that i wish everyone arguing the point that china cant overtake U.S. in economy or world superpowers would read. The facts are there, there is not much hiding around the corner, all of the true indication is in front of us. Yes. the article states U.S. still holds the title for world superpower by military size and capabilities. That's not to say that china cant catch up in no ti…

China has more than 3X the population of the US, so it only needs a bit over 1/3 the GDP per capita to overtake the US. I can’t imagine that not happening unless China really screws up.

Overtaking the US on GDP per capita is much further away.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#198

Post by whimsicalism » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 4:45 PM UTC

_7acn wrote: post #178

I remember how until quite recently, the West viewed the East, particularly China, as a backward region. People would even dismissively use the term 'Chinese junk'. In a remarkably short time, that perception has completely flipped. Now it's the West that seems to be falling behind...

people are slow to adapt and have very outdated ideas of countries that are not their own. i see this upcoming with India too and Mexico soon

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#199

Post by wiseowise » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 4:47 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #190

doctorpangloss wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People buy iPhones for their software, which is all made here. Otherwise all phones are black rectangles. The hardware isn’t that important.

it's the opposite. People buy iPhones and Apple products for the quality of their hardware and the cost of the devices themselves reflects this. Apple is one of the least software focused tech companies in the world. Everyone except for American teens obsessed with the colors of their chat bubbles uses WhatsApp, Telegram or FB Messenger and other completely platform independent apps. Nobody's ever bought an iphone fo…

> Nobody's ever bought an iphone for Apple Maps, everyone runs around with Google software on their phone.

It is still running on Apple platform. I'm buying an iPhone, because I know that I'll get consistent Apple experience that is same across all of my devices, unlike zoo of Android + Windows/Linux.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#200

Post by whimsicalism » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 4:48 PM UTC

wakawaka28 wrote: post #26

danans wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All the while Beijing did everything in its power to enrich the Chinese worker, no matter the cost to outsiders. The results speak for themselves. In fairness, during this period, the US did everything it could to suppress the wages and benefits of its own manufacturing workers. Recall that the first rounds of manufacturing outsourcing were to US states with non-existent labor protections, mostly in the South.

The only way to protect wages in the face of competition that works for 1/10 to 1/3 the rate is to institute protectionist policies. That has also been unpopular because there's money to be made in offshoring as well. Americans are getting the worst at both ends, and only experiencing short-term benefits of having cheaper goods.

What the heck? When did this sort of economically irresponsible thinking become so mainstream?

The benefits of protectionism are what are short-term, but they leave both us and China materially poorer in the long term. Life today is better than it was in the 1950s — and a large part of that is knowing our comparative advantage and leaning into it, not trying to restore long-dead industries by political fiat and throwing trillions in good resources after bad initiatives.

If we want to help workers who are struggling - then tax more and redistribute more. Don’t throw a wrench into mutually beneficial trade (and completely sabotage our critical climate goals while we are at it, it makes no sense that we treat BYD the way we do).