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China is the manufacturing superpower

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Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#141

Post by coliveira »

rat87 wrote: post #56
coliveira wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Producing real things is not just a matter of money. You need know-how and supply chains. These things left the US at least 10 years ago. It can get them back, but the costs will be staggering, and it would need to compete against China and other Asian countries.

Many of those Asian countries are our allies. If you want to argue for weapon or dual use stuff like drones that's one thing but I don't see how making cellphones help. Also we do make real things both physical and non physical

I think you're deceiving yourself. They're allies as long as it makes sense for them.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#142

Post by coliveira »

wumeow wrote: post #37
coliveira wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not even talk about Taiwan, which will be the first target, and its plants will all produce chips for Chinese products.

Those plants will 100% be destroyed/disabled in the event of an invasion.

Even if that is possible (unlikely), it will be a big blow to American power because Taiwan produces the best of semiconductor technology.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#143

Post by throw0101b »

See also "Manufacturing is a war now":

> Democratic countries’ economies are mainly set up as free market economies with redistribution, because this is what maximizes living standards in peacetime. In a free market economy, if a foreign country wants to sell you cheap cars, you let them do it, and you allocate your own productive resources to something more profitable instead. If China is willing to sell you brand-new electric vehicles for $10,000, why should you turn them down? Just make B2B SaaS and advertising platforms and chat apps, sell them for a high profit margin, and drive a Chinese car.

> Except then a war comes, and suddenly you find that B2B SaaS and advertising platforms and chat apps aren’t very useful for defending your freedoms. Oops! The right time to worry about manufacturing would have been years before the war, except you weren’t able to anticipate and prepare for the future. Manufacturing doesn’t just support war — in a very real way, it’s a war in and of itself.

> Democratic countries seem to still mostly be in “peace mode” with respect to their economic models. They don’t yet see manufacturing as something that needs to be preserved and expanded in peacetime in order to be ready for the increasing likelihood of a major war. Fortunately, both Republicans and Democrats in America have inched away from this deadly complacency in recent years. But both the tariffs embraced by the GOP and the industrial policies pioneered by the Dems are only partial solutions, lacking key pieces of a military-industrial strategy.

* https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/manufacturing-is-a-war-now

FDR started preparing for war years before WW2 / Pearl Harbor (warning: heavy anti-union slant in the book as it was funded by AEI):

* https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13152691-freedom-s-forge

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#144

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

rkancv wrote: post #138
mahirsaid wrote: post #73

this is amazing and filled with facts that i wish everyone arguing the point that china cant overtake U.S. in economy or world superpowers would read. The facts are there, there is not much hiding around the corner, all of the true indication is in front of us. Yes. the article states U.S. still holds the title for world superpower by military size and capabilities. That's not to say that china cant catch up in no ti…

Yes, China engages diplomatically and financially with countries that the U.S. fought and then leaves. Since the withdrawal from Afghanistan of course China appeared instantly: https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/mining-influence-chin... Now the U.S. is fighting for minerals in Ukraine. Rare moment of truth by Senator Graham: https://responsiblestatecraft.org/lindsey-graham-ukraine/ This of course could have been…

Korea is not the best example to prove your point. SK is per capita equivalent to Japan[1]. The Korean War was a tie and in the long run it’s clear which side is better off.

[1] https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/02/01/by-one-m...

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#145

Post by kasey_junk »

smcl wrote: post #91
mahirsaid wrote: post #73

this is amazing and filled with facts that i wish everyone arguing the point that china cant overtake U.S. in economy or world superpowers would read. The facts are there, there is not much hiding around the corner, all of the true indication is in front of us. Yes. the article states U.S. still holds the title for world superpower by military size and capabilities. That's not to say that china cant catch up in no ti…

> everyone arguing the point that china cant overtake U.S. in economy Surely nobody halfway serious is arguing that. The faction about to take power in the USA is tilting at the "woke ideology" windmill, talks openly of deporting a big chunk of the workforce and does not seem to understand how tariffs work. Even if you ignore all that, China has 4-5x the population (for now!) and is by all measures has a highly devel…

The demographic issue is the big one.

But there are several others that show up in serious financial circles. Particularly the domestic fiscal policy around debt and investment, currency liberalization and entrepreneurial risk vs reward.

The Chinese government is walking a very fine line with their private enterprise policies and it’s not one that is well understood. But there is quite a bit of concern that if China gets more autocratic it may hinder further productivity and growth (right as the demographic issue hits in earnest).

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#146

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

saturn8601 wrote: post #30
Animats wrote: post #10

The US can't even make cell phones any more. What would it take to get that capability back?

They are trying: Purism is selling the Librem 5 USA at $1,600 From the site: "The Librem 5 USA has Made in USA Electronics with all fabrication and manufacturing done at the Purism facility. Individual components used in fabrication are sourced direct from chip makers and parts distributors. We use US companies with US fabrication whenever possible. Most distributors are based in the US with the exception of large in…

Is that because of US inefficiencies or that they can't subsidize the cost with spying? Both?

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#147

Post by bilbo0s »

rkancv wrote: post #138
mahirsaid wrote: post #73

this is amazing and filled with facts that i wish everyone arguing the point that china cant overtake U.S. in economy or world superpowers would read. The facts are there, there is not much hiding around the corner, all of the true indication is in front of us. Yes. the article states U.S. still holds the title for world superpower by military size and capabilities. That's not to say that china cant catch up in no ti…

Yes, China engages diplomatically and financially with countries that the U.S. fought and then leaves. Since the withdrawal from Afghanistan of course China appeared instantly: https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/mining-influence-chin... Now the U.S. is fighting for minerals in Ukraine. Rare moment of truth by Senator Graham: https://responsiblestatecraft.org/lindsey-graham-ukraine/ This of course could have been…

Pretty sure the parent is talking about overlooked nations. Nations no one even fights a war over. Probably referring to things like China going "all in" on under-developed African nations.

It's a very "Eastern" strategy. Avoidance and Trade.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#148

Post by [deleted] »

throw0101b wrote: post #143

See also "Manufacturing is a war now": > Democratic countries’ economies are mainly set up as free market economies with redistribution, because this is what maximizes living standards in peacetime. In a free market economy, if a foreign country wants to sell you cheap cars, you let them do it, and you allocate your own productive resources to something more profitable instead. If China is willing to sell you brand-n…

[deleted]

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#149

Post by ChumpGPT »

csomar wrote: post #57

One thing people are not aware of and am curious of how big it really is: China manufacturing laundry. Essentially, goods are manufactured in China, then laundered to a third-party country and then exported to the US/EU. This come in two flavors, legal laundry where the local manufacturer satisfies the conditions; and illegal one where bribes are paid to pass goods. > https://antidumping.vn/eu-chinabike-duty-hits-ind…

Both Canada and Mexico are guilty of this. For years they would import products and do some light assembly and label it as Made in Canada or Mexico. Since Canada gives China Most Favored Nation status, importers can avoid duties and export into the USA since there is a Free Trade Agreement(NAFTA). It took a while for US Customs to crack down on this but it finally did and they now pay very close attention to where the origin of the item was. Unfortunately it went on long enough to destroy many American industries. Canada and Mexico made 100's of billions of these schemes at the USA's expense.
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