Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China is the manufacturing superpower

cepr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 315 posts

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#101

Post by wakawaka28 »

kriops wrote: post #96
maeil wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people don't like protectionism because in the long term it's worse for both countries. I keep seeing these statements on here and they're utterly misleading. Protectionism is a spectrum. It is practiced by every single country. It's a very bold assumption to make that if every country would completely eliminate everything resembling it, this would benefit everyone. The opposite is very likely. There are numer…

A reduction in the space of possible allocations of resources isn’t good. It is good for any particular set of parties insofar as it hurts some other set of parties more than themselves. This is neither complicated nor controversial.

>A reduction in the space of possible allocations of resources isn’t good.

I would personally like to eliminate allocations of resources that put me out of business and wreck the country.

>It is good for any particular set of parties insofar as it hurts some other set of parties more than themselves.

There's a huge misunderstanding in here somewhere. Most people don't think of their own welfare in terms of a negative outcome for anyone else. It's not necessarily a zero sum game. People can coexist and duplicate effort, and that sometimes makes sense. An individual or nation should strive for some reasonable level of self-sufficiency, because you can't always rely on other people to treat you well or take care of you.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#102

Post by bobthepanda »

mahirsaid wrote: post #73

this is amazing and filled with facts that i wish everyone arguing the point that china cant overtake U.S. in economy or world superpowers would read. The facts are there, there is not much hiding around the corner, all of the true indication is in front of us. Yes. the article states U.S. still holds the title for world superpower by military size and capabilities. That's not to say that china cant catch up in no ti…

I don’t think it’s necessarily so clear that Chinese foreign policy has really paid off yet.

Chinese loanmaking to foreign countries has mostly gone bust, with many loans basically in default. While it’s true that Western development agencies were not lending to these projects, they mostly weren’t doing so because they were doubtful of the business cases of said projects and the likelihood that the government could actually pay off the loan, and so now China is dealing with that.

One of the most direct Chinese relationships is with Myanmar, which has not only gone to hell in a handbasket but now is a hotbed of criminal activity by Chinese organized crime abducting Chinese nationals to work in Myanmar. So that’s not great either.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#103

Post by wakawaka28 »

typ wrote: post #71
rat87 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people don't like protectionism because in the long term it's worse for both countries. You have a short term benefit of protecting a handful of jobs in exchange for vastly more expensive goods for everyone as well as more expensive inputs to your other products undercutting other local industries. Protectionism is popular because the benifits for the few are visible while the downsides are diffuse but add up. A…

It depends. We can say that China’s industrial policies are a kind of protectionism as well in that they are willing to pay for extra cost for domestic “national red supply chain independence” rather than relying on the “comparatively advantageous” western vendors. And they did get excellent results. Note that industrial independence is exactly the opposite of free trade and that has been a long sought national goal…

China has a high amount of protectionism. You can't sell in China without approval, and no foreign-controlled business is granted access. You have to set up a minimum 51% Chinese-owned subsidiary and possibly jump through other hoops to get access. This along with all the outsourcing has been used to steal IP and put foreign competitors out of business.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#104

Post by trimethylpurine »

mylastattempt wrote: post #76
csomar wrote: post #57

One thing people are not aware of and am curious of how big it really is: China manufacturing laundry. Essentially, goods are manufactured in China, then laundered to a third-party country and then exported to the US/EU. This come in two flavors, legal laundry where the local manufacturer satisfies the conditions; and illegal one where bribes are paid to pass goods. > https://antidumping.vn/eu-chinabike-duty-hits-ind…

This way of working is marketed as such by Chinese manufacturers. They will refer to it as something along the lines of: Made in South East Asia. Sometimes they produce the products in (e.g.) Vietnam, but more often than not, everything is done in China, then shipped to Vietnam for packaging or adding a "Made in Vietnam" label, and shipped out from there. Thailand is another upcoming player in this scheme. Large comp…

Do you work in manufacturing?

In my experience, no, companies are generally not aware and not accepting of this and brands/licensing requirements ensure that's the case. For sure in regards to valuable trademarks.

A manufacturer would absolutely not want to risk their entire business. And that's all it takes for a brand to pull your license. Now what? Everyone is fired and a $120M contact is lost over a few cents per unit.

It's possible that it happens as Chinese factories skirt the rules and make false presentation, but manufacturers spend a lot of money to send someone to many countries and factories to trial and vet them over the course of years to meet brand requirements for licensure before they begin manufacturing with them and often through repeat checks during the manufacturing process. But I'd say that's rare, again, in regards to branded goods of valuable trademarks.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#105

Post by [deleted] »

wakawaka28 wrote: post #103
typ wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. We can say that China’s industrial policies are a kind of protectionism as well in that they are willing to pay for extra cost for domestic “national red supply chain independence” rather than relying on the “comparatively advantageous” western vendors. And they did get excellent results. Note that industrial independence is exactly the opposite of free trade and that has been a long sought national goal…

China has a high amount of protectionism. You can't sell in China without approval, and no foreign-controlled business is granted access. You have to set up a minimum 51% Chinese-owned subsidiary and possibly jump through other hoops to get access. This along with all the outsourcing has been used to steal IP and put foreign competitors out of business.

[deleted]

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#106

Post by fvdessen »

dragonwriter wrote: post #17
Animats wrote: post #10

The US can't even make cell phones any more. What would it take to get that capability back?

The US can make cellphones, its just not efficient for the US to make cellphones because the US’s comparative advantage is elsewhere. What it would take for the US to make cellphones is direct subsidy to the (inefficient, and for that reason likely therefore doomed by the market without artificial support, since there is robust competition) US firms doing so. Of course, not only would this cost the amount of the subs…

It's not economically optimal for one country to manufacture all the jewelry and its neighbour all the tanks, because this situation quickly becomes one country

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#107

Post by bigfatkitten »

grecy wrote: post #90
fakedang wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but say that Australia is basically the stupidest country on the planet (at least amongst Western democracies, since one could say modern Russia is stupider, but that's a whole another cultural debate). It's like the degenerate alcoholic who's willing to prostitute their mother for a bar tab. A country so blessed with some of the most important natural resources, a country whose geography is synonymous w…

FWIW, I’m an Aussie who went back during covid for the first meaningful stretch in 20 years. Explored the who country. I saw with my own eyes what you’re talking about and you are spot on. It’s depressing and sad to see how Australia can’t organize a free one in a brothel, is stuck in the past and has no real interest or plan on how to improve anything at all. Their problem is life is pretty good, so they’re not inte…

David Horne said it best in 1964.

"Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people’s ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise."

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#109

Post by chii »

ipnon wrote: post #14
advael wrote: post #3

Huh. For all the claims that US manufacturing is down, it does seem that if we adjusted per-capita it's on par with China based on the figures presented here, which I really didn't expect to see I'm no expert and of course I have no clue if it even makes sense to measure per-capita manufacturing share, and also assume a lot of other factors matter here - what kinds of things we're manufacturing, how much those produc…

You might be surprised to learn that manufacturing is larger industry in the US than our tech industry, or that our domestic oil industry is even larger. America produces more oil than any other country. America was the world's factory for over a century. This dominance only ended around 2010, when China took the lead. It was our advantage to lose, and it was the result of deliberate political action. We offshored ma…

> All the while Beijing did everything in its power to enrich the Chinese worker

i am not sure that the CCP is doing anything to enrich the average worker, and in fact, is probably doing the very opposite - making sure the chinese currency is constantly and artificially debased to make export more competitive. This results in lower wages for the workers. It is why there's low demand for goods/services in china.

The money being earned by these exports is kept mostly by the gov't - to be spent on whatever they think has priority, which mostly have been on infrastructure, supporting industry the party deems important etc.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#110

Post by chii »

fvdessen wrote: post #106
dragonwriter wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US can make cellphones, its just not efficient for the US to make cellphones because the US’s comparative advantage is elsewhere. What it would take for the US to make cellphones is direct subsidy to the (inefficient, and for that reason likely therefore doomed by the market without artificial support, since there is robust competition) US firms doing so. Of course, not only would this cost the amount of the subs…

It's not economically optimal for one country to manufacture all the jewelry and its neighbour all the tanks, because this situation quickly becomes one country

> because this situation quickly becomes one country

i would argue this to be a good thing - a global "country". And yet, it is the human condition to separate tribally. It's why civilization can't advance more, until this becomes solved.

Post reply on HN