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Conscious unbossing

robertwalters.co.uk

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Re: Conscious unbossing

#31

Post by Brian_K_White »

jonahx wrote: post #28
WantonQuantum wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Middle manager is not a precise term so opinions on what is and is not a middle manager differ but in larger companies there are definitely senior managers and executive management.

All of the replies to GP sound like desperate attempts not to self-identify as a middle manager. GP's definition matches common usage: To people not invested in this game, if you are manager at a large company and not C-suite, you're a middle manager.

Obviously silly. There are obviously a large bulk of managers who do not manage other managers, and they could reasonably only be called simply "managers". What would be the excuse for adding "middle" to them when they are not in the middle of anything?

Re: Conscious unbossing

#33

Post by UncleMeat »

asielen wrote: post #24

In my 15 years in small and mid-sized tech, I've found the most useless managers are senior managers. Good team leads and second line managers can make or break an organization. But they are the least respected roles at a company and gets thrown under the bus first. Most companies don't invest anything in training new managers or setting clear roles and responsibilities for managers. Senior management never faces any…

This is my experience at big tech too. I've had great managers. When I've managed people, they've appeared to genuinely say that I was doing a good job. I've interacted with one Director and one Vice President ever who seemed like they were worth a damn.

Re: Conscious unbossing

#34

Post by amiga386 »

Imnimo wrote: post #30

This doesn't really relate to the question of middle management, but it's interesting to compare the Canadian and British versions of this article: https://www.robert-walters.ca/insights/news/blog/Concious-un... https://www.robertwalters.co.uk/insights/news/blog/conscious... They both have comments ostensibly from "Lucy Bisset, Director of Robert Walters North" and "Martin Fox, Managing Director of Robert Walters Can…

This is extremely dangerous to our democracy (according to Sinclair Broadcast Group): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZggCipbiHwE&t=33s

Re: Conscious unbossing

#35

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

brightball wrote: post #11

Nobody wants to be a middle manager. I’d be concerned if anyone ever wanted to be a middle manager. If you’re not C level and somebody reports to you, you’re a middle manager though.

Even working near a middle manager means you're working somewhere with three or more layers of management, which suggests a concerning enthusiasm for hierarchy and smells a bit too much like Omelas for comfort.

Re: Conscious unbossing

#36

Post by ahefner »

asielen wrote: post #24

In my 15 years in small and mid-sized tech, I've found the most useless managers are senior managers. Good team leads and second line managers can make or break an organization. But they are the least respected roles at a company and gets thrown under the bus first. Most companies don't invest anything in training new managers or setting clear roles and responsibilities for managers. Senior management never faces any…

Oh, I don't know - in my (admittedly limited and very individual / company-specific) experience, the senior management was hard to relate to from the perspective of us rank and file, but clearly had the Sword of Damocles over their head at all times, and tended to get swept away arbitrarily every few years as the winds of corporate politics changes direction. It seemed to require some exceptional execution (or luck) to defer this cycle for even a year or two.

Depends what you mean by senior management, of course. I'm thinking mostly the "VP / SVP of Engineering" type role, and to a lesser degree, one hop down, the "Senior Director" folks, who seemed to be subject to the same phenomenon but on a slightly slower cycle.

Re: Conscious unbossing

#37

Post by [deleted] »

Imnimo wrote: post #30

This doesn't really relate to the question of middle management, but it's interesting to compare the Canadian and British versions of this article: https://www.robert-walters.ca/insights/news/blog/Concious-un... https://www.robertwalters.co.uk/insights/news/blog/conscious... They both have comments ostensibly from "Lucy Bisset, Director of Robert Walters North" and "Martin Fox, Managing Director of Robert Walters Can…

[deleted]

Re: Conscious unbossing

#38

Post by FigurativeVoid »

It would be fascinating to see how this number trends over time. Many of my peers never wanted to be managers, but then they had children. Suddenly they were much more open to being managers and getting the associated pay increases.

I suspect this number trends down over time.

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