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Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

den.dev

171–180 of 270 posts

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#171
post #44

> Exploiting user-generated content. You know, if I've noticed anything in the past couple years, it's that even if you self-host your own site, it's still going to get hoovered up and used/exploited by things like AI training bots. I think between everyone's code getting trained on, even if it's AGPLv3 or something similarly restrictive, and generally everything public on the internet getting "trained" and "transfor…

Copying data isn’t exploitation.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#172
post #121

So this is a blog stating to be an owner and not a renter, and then proceeds to talk about how to rent hosting.. Sorry, but if it's not your hardware, on your property, then you're renting. Regulations have been waay too lose on, especially, american ISPs where I understand they are allowed to not only refuse you a public routable IP but also dictate what kind of traffic you're allowed to send and receive (for exampl…

I think the sentiment was to keep your content (and audience) portable, not specifically that you don't rely on anyone else's services. If you post everything on Twitter and Twitter decides they don't like you, then that's the end of you. If you host on a personal domain and your rented web host decides to block you, there's plenty more options and you can take your audience with you and they will never know the diff…

I know it was, but the click-baity headline makes it seem like you're becoming independent of the whims of private companies, which you are very much not if you're renting a host somewhere. You're definitely not a property owner, you might be a domain owner (renter still, I don't know of any domains which you can pay for and keep forever).

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#173

This all sounds like renting to me. Instead you should: - put a rack in your home - buy an IPv4 block - buy dark fibre - start your own ISP - advertise routes over BGP - host your own email - found a registrar and transfer your domains over All easily obtainable for less than a million dollars in capital. Though once your FTTH and undersea cable operations ramp up you'll need further access to capital.

[deleted]

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#174
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can absolutely see why someone rational would want to share a whole lot less, anywhere, in an open fashion, regardless of where it's hosted. I've reached the same conclusion. All data is just bits. Numbers. Once it's out there, trying to control their spread and use is just delusional. People should just stop sharing things publicly. Even things like AGPLv3 are proving to be ineffective against their exploitation…

Yeah, I hear this. Anything I put online is feeding the machine that will replace me. Maybe I can carve myself a niche if I can find an audience, and maybe turn that into something kind of reward-shaped, but that's not happening without me feeding the machine. And almost certainly I won't succeed, and I'll just make it harder for myself and everyone like me to succeed in the future. It seems the only thing to do is d…

If a machine can replace a creative, the creative isn’t creative and should be replaced.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#175
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step 1: Simply create your own Starlink.

You need to constantly launch new satellites as old ones undergo orbital decay and run out of fuel.

To do this you need a cozy relationship with the satellite launch regulator in your country of operation.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#176
post #121

So this is a blog stating to be an owner and not a renter, and then proceeds to talk about how to rent hosting.. Sorry, but if it's not your hardware, on your property, then you're renting. Regulations have been waay too lose on, especially, american ISPs where I understand they are allowed to not only refuse you a public routable IP but also dictate what kind of traffic you're allowed to send and receive (for exampl…

Hosting is a service, not a product.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#177
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree with the sentiment (and yes, internet should be treated as an utility). However, the reality is that the vast majority of people will not be able to self-host on their own hardware for a myriad of reasons (lack of skill, lack of money, lack of interest, etc.) That's not a reason to gatekeep them from having their own corner and claim it as theirs. If you have a domain and your own site, even hosted…

There is a simple way though : have the ISPs provide all of this. If they can provide you a personal website, an email account and a NAS, they can also provide you a a personal website and an email account ON that NAS. (Especially now, with IPv6.) (Which of course assumes that there are laws in place against lock-in, just like there are already laws in place against lock-in for your pick of ISPs and obligations for m…

ISPs don’t want lots of customers sending lots of data. Their model is based on millions of dumb consumers downloading (only) from the same 20 ASes.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#178
post #115
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of me viscerally agrees because large corporations have monetized UGC. Another part of me though thinks differently. We are a species that builds knowledge from generation to generation. From one person to another. Over years, over centuries. Philosophically this part tends to think that your thoughts and ideas belong to humanity and thus need to be shared with all of us.

There's two decades worth of countless conversations on Reddit alone that would be buried into nothingness but instead ML has revived all that activity as useful data. ML is definitely a great way to bring back utility for a lot of old and unused data.

> revived that activity as useful data

Revived as compressed text associations, it is potentially useful data, but also potentially totally wrong in non-obvious ways. (Or, to riff on Futurama, "The worst kind of incorrect.")

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#179
post #171
post #44

> Exploiting user-generated content. You know, if I've noticed anything in the past couple years, it's that even if you self-host your own site, it's still going to get hoovered up and used/exploited by things like AI training bots. I think between everyone's code getting trained on, even if it's AGPLv3 or something similarly restrictive, and generally everything public on the internet getting "trained" and "transfor…

Copying data isn’t exploitation.

[deleted]

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#180
post #51
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing to disagree in this statement, for sure. If it's on the open internet, it will almost surely be used for AI training, consent be damned. But it feels like even at a rudimentary level, if I post a picture on my site that is then used by a large publisher for ads, I would (at least in theory) have some recourse to pursue the matter and prevent them from using my content. In contrast, if I uploaded something to…

> Meta "sublicensed" my image to someone else, I wouldn't have much to say there. but you agreed to this, when agreeing to the TOS. > I post a picture on my site that is then used by a large publisher for ads, I would (at least in theory) have some recourse which you didn't sign any contract, and therefore it is a violation of copyright. But the new AI training methods are currently, at least imho, not a violation of…

> But the new AI training methods are currently, at least imho, not a violation of copyright - not any more than a human eye viewing it

Interesting comparison - as if a human viewed something, memorized it and reproduced in a recognisable way to be pretty much the same, wouldn't that still breach copyright?

ie in the human case it doesn't matter whether it went through an intermediate neural encoding - what matters is whether the output is sufficiently similar to be deemed a copy.

Surely the same is the case of AI?

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