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Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

den.dev

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Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#41

Post by indigodaddy »

What this guy doesn't really get is that people don't want their own websites. What the hell would they do with a website? They love social media platforms. The why or where of how we got here doesn't really matter, it's the reality.

I think the only way forward is better and less evil social networks, or perhaps some sort of cyclical sea change where the Internet sort of starts over again, ala how civilizations/humanity have every XX thousands of years according to various esoteric Sikh/Hindu traditions.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#42

Post by dend »

andrewon wrote: post #38
sshine wrote: post #2

tl;dr: - Don't depend on other people's software services. - Buy a domain and host your own website. - Don't pick a sketchy TLD or registrar. - Mailing lists beat social media accounts. - It's okay to depend on a cloud. I had the belief that the article was going to say the exact opposite wrt. cloud hosting. You're literally renting space, and if your stuff gets any heat, your cloud provider may simply shut you down…

> - Don't depend on other people's software services. > - Buy a domain and host your own website. I had the exact chain of thought, only to find that traffic of the site I built is at the mercy of how Google decided to rank webpages, and putting AI > youtube > Reddit in front of everything else. > - Mailing lists beat social media accounts. Similarly, Google set the metric for what counts as spams. Your emails can al…

On (1), yes that is true to an extent - the domain discoverability is indeed mostly at the mercy of Google, and the whole "AI overview" is a garbage experience. However, looking at my own search console data (both Google and Bing), there are still quite a few folks landing on my pages through search, often for some obscure terms that I somehow documented, so it's still possible to get traffic that way. But again - the goal is less about "drive traffic ASAP" but rather point people from other networks to something you personally own.

On (2), they can, but if you use a more established provider like Buttondown or Mailchimp, and you are not actually sending spam, a lot of folks have quite a bit of success building an audience that way. I've used Buttondown (not affiliated with them in any capacity) personally before and haven't had subscribers complain about deliverability. I am planning on rebooting that this year to see how it goes. I've heard most deliverability issues arise when folks trying to roll out their own email server.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#44

Post by rpcope1 »

> Exploiting user-generated content.

You know, if I've noticed anything in the past couple years, it's that even if you self-host your own site, it's still going to get hoovered up and used/exploited by things like AI training bots. I think between everyone's code getting trained on, even if it's AGPLv3 or something similarly restrictive, and generally everything public on the internet getting "trained" and "transformed" to basically launder it via "AI", I can absolutely see why someone rational would want to share a whole lot less, anywhere, in an open fashion, regardless of where it's hosted.

I'd honestly rather see and think more about how to segment communities locally, and go back to the "fragmented" way things once were. It's easier to want to share with other real people than inadvertently working for free to enrich companies.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#45

Post by richardw »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #17

This all sounds like renting to me. Instead you should: - put a rack in your home - buy an IPv4 block - buy dark fibre - start your own ISP - advertise routes over BGP - host your own email - found a registrar and transfer your domains over All easily obtainable for less than a million dollars in capital. Though once your FTTH and undersea cable operations ramp up you'll need further access to capital.

The second you have a domain you can move it where you want. Change the software, look and feel. You keep subscribers. You don’t need to own every atom, just enough to give you options.

You can’t move your X or FB account. They can block you anytime, or reduce traffic. Way fewer options.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#46

Post by dend »

indigodaddy wrote: post #41

What this guy doesn't really get is that people don't want their own websites. What the hell would they do with a website? They love social media platforms. The why or where of how we got here doesn't really matter, it's the reality. I think the only way forward is better and less evil social networks, or perhaps some sort of cyclical sea change where the Internet sort of starts over again, ala how civilizations/huma…

That's a fair call-out, but that's why in the post I mention this:

> Most people are perfectly content with everything living inside their Facebook account because it’s convenient and their family and friends are already there. Telling everyone to learn how git and GitHub Pages work to host their blog is not an effective way to drive change. But that’s also not the point. As I mentioned earlier, the goal is to start with a small niche community of people who are comfortable with building their own digital corners.

Not everyone needs to have their website. Not everybody wants to have their website. And that's fine. They can use the social platforms as-is. But for those that have the means and interest in building their own corners (say, they want to bootstrap a business), they should not limit themselves to the social networks as the only place for their community. There is a better way than be a sharecropper on someone else's land.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#47

Post by dend »

rpcope1 wrote: post #44

> Exploiting user-generated content. You know, if I've noticed anything in the past couple years, it's that even if you self-host your own site, it's still going to get hoovered up and used/exploited by things like AI training bots. I think between everyone's code getting trained on, even if it's AGPLv3 or something similarly restrictive, and generally everything public on the internet getting "trained" and "transfor…

Nothing to disagree in this statement, for sure. If it's on the open internet, it will almost surely be used for AI training, consent be damned. But it feels like even at a rudimentary level, if I post a picture on my site that is then used by a large publisher for ads, I would (at least in theory) have some recourse to pursue the matter and prevent them from using my content.

In contrast, if I uploaded something to a social media site like Instagram, and then Meta "sublicensed" my image to someone else, I wouldn't have much to say there.

Would love someone with actual legal knowledge to chime in here.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#48

Post by panarky »

rpcope1 wrote: post #44

> Exploiting user-generated content. You know, if I've noticed anything in the past couple years, it's that even if you self-host your own site, it's still going to get hoovered up and used/exploited by things like AI training bots. I think between everyone's code getting trained on, even if it's AGPLv3 or something similarly restrictive, and generally everything public on the internet getting "trained" and "transfor…

> how to segment communities locally

So it's not about owning vs. renting property on the internet, it's about controlling the roads that connect the properties so you can keep the world out of your community.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#49

Post by greyface- »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #17

This all sounds like renting to me. Instead you should: - put a rack in your home - buy an IPv4 block - buy dark fibre - start your own ISP - advertise routes over BGP - host your own email - found a registrar and transfer your domains over All easily obtainable for less than a million dollars in capital. Though once your FTTH and undersea cable operations ramp up you'll need further access to capital.

You're still renting your ASN and IP space from ARIN/RIPE/etc, and they'll be revoked if you stop paying yearly dues. For true independence, you need to establish a base in international waters and establish a new RIR in accordance with ICANN ICP-2. https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/new-rirs-criteria-2012...
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