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Rails for everything

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Re: Rails for everything

#221

Post by zerkten »

rednafi wrote: post #215
neonsunset wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever had to actually hire?

Multiple times; both in the US and Western Europe. Hiring Juniors for C# was harder than finding Python and Ruby people.

It's a top-heavy market because the industry-wide growth and momentum was 2001-2008. Since that period, the available alternatives for entry into a dev career have increased. Python/Ruby/JavaScript tend to be what most juniors are encouraged to focus on. There are new waves of C# enthusiasts, but the growth in dev overall has drowned it out.

Re: Rails for everything

#222

Post by wiseowise »

sverhagen wrote: post #154
teleforce wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author of Stanza language has this insightful article on the viability of a programming language for creating a powerful framework like Ruby on Rails [1]. Surprisingly there's no Go and Java equivalent, either it's the incompetence of the programming languages (can't) or the programmers (won't), or both. [1] Stop Designing Languages. Write Libraries Instead: http://lbstanza.org/purpose_of_programming_languages.ht…

I've had to do some maintenance on Rails apps in the past, coming from my Java background, and it was painful as hell. It's just what you're familiar with. I can take my Java and Spring Boot, both of which I'm very familiar with, and write an article like that to wonder why Ruby has not something awesome like Spring Boot. But I don't do that, because it'd be equally embarrassing. Spring Boot for me is super productiv…

No, it is absolutely not “what you’re familiar with”. Is there a “spring” command that generates controller + view + test for you? That does migrations? Can you say “install spring” and get everything you need to start without stitching dozens of scattered spring artifacts? I’m not even going to talk about one of the most verbose languages out there locked into OOP, made dynamic with thousands of annotations and held together by a DI framework.

Spring is an industrial factory that is good for huge teams, because it acts as a straight jacket.

Re: Rails for everything

#223

Post by rednafi »

zerkten wrote: post #221
rednafi wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple times; both in the US and Western Europe. Hiring Juniors for C# was harder than finding Python and Ruby people.

It's a top-heavy market because the industry-wide growth and momentum was 2001-2008. Since that period, the available alternatives for entry into a dev career have increased. Python/Ruby/JavaScript tend to be what most juniors are encouraged to focus on. There are new waves of C# enthusiasts, but the growth in dev overall has drowned it out.

Could be, but the wave is against OO languages, and unfortunately, juniors often show unwarranted disregard for the paradigm. We’ve had good interviewees who flat-out told us they weren’t interested in working with any Microsoft stack—including C#, .NET, and Azure—and they definitely weren’t the only ones. Betting on Python, JS, and Go is way safer, and many new startups reflect that.

Re: Rails for everything

#224

Post by neonsunset »

rednafi wrote: post #215
neonsunset wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever had to actually hire?

Multiple times; both in the US and Western Europe. Hiring Juniors for C# was harder than finding Python and Ruby people.

I'm surprised you've had trouble finding juniors in this market. What sources were used to build the candidate pool? I'm even more surprised to hear that finding Ruby juniors was easier.

Re: Rails for everything

#225

Post by cutler »

teleforce wrote: post #135
rednafi wrote: post #47

Rails is awesome, and so is Django. I’ve built mission-critical apps in both and still do with Python. That said, I’d love to switch to Go for building large monoliths since it has a tighter type system and better concurrency constructs. The problem is, Go community has never really filled that gap. I love Go, but the whole "Go doesn’t need a Rails or Django" mindset is part of why it hasn’t taken off in this space.…

The author of Stanza language has this insightful article on the viability of a programming language for creating a powerful framework like Ruby on Rails [1]. Surprisingly there's no Go and Java equivalent, either it's the incompetence of the programming languages (can't) or the programmers (won't), or both. [1] Stop Designing Languages. Write Libraries Instead: http://lbstanza.org/purpose_of_programming_languages.ht…

It's Ruby that makes Rails what it is. Matz combined the best of Smalltalk, Lisp and Perl to produce a language second to none for writing DSLs. DHH simply capitalised on Ruby's strengths.

Re: Rails for everything

#226

Post by cutler »

rednafi wrote: post #216
sverhagen wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had to do some maintenance on Rails apps in the past, coming from my Java background, and it was painful as hell. It's just what you're familiar with. I can take my Java and Spring Boot, both of which I'm very familiar with, and write an article like that to wonder why Ruby has not something awesome like Spring Boot. But I don't do that, because it'd be equally embarrassing. Spring Boot for me is super productiv…

OTOH, Java almost made me quit and choose a different career. I’ll work with anything but Java. I’ve worked with Python, JS, Ruby, and Go, and I’ve been fortunate enough to avoid working with OO languages. To each their own.

Python and Ruby are both OO.

Re: Rails for everything

#227

Post by e12e »

nickjj wrote: post #174

One thing I don't get about the current Rails direction is pushing hard to use SQLite and removing external dependencies but at the same time also advocating to use Docker. Running Postgres and Redis in Docker is a matter of adding a few lines of YAML to a file once and never thinking about it again. I have done this for 10 years, it is painless. I'm all for reducing moving parts and would also choose the same strate…

Agreed. Adding SQLite is potentially a quick way to make your stateless rails container/app stateful. While using a proper DBMS as a separate service makes perfect sense.

Re: Rails for everything

#228

Post by rednafi »

neonsunset wrote: post #224
rednafi wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple times; both in the US and Western Europe. Hiring Juniors for C# was harder than finding Python and Ruby people.

I'm surprised you've had trouble finding juniors in this market. What sources were used to build the candidate pool? I'm even more surprised to hear that finding Ruby juniors was easier.

Easier than C#. Python was the easiest, followed by Node.

Re: Rails for everything

#229

Post by rednafi »

cutler wrote: post #226
rednafi wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH, Java almost made me quit and choose a different career. I’ll work with anything but Java. I’ve worked with Python, JS, Ruby, and Go, and I’ve been fortunate enough to avoid working with OO languages. To each their own.

Python and Ruby are both OO.

No. The basis is OO and but they are multi-paradigm. Go has structs, methods, and type embedding but they don’t make it an OO language.

Re: Rails for everything

#230

Post by neonsunset »

rednafi wrote: post #228
neonsunset wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised you've had trouble finding juniors in this market. What sources were used to build the candidate pool? I'm even more surprised to hear that finding Ruby juniors was easier.

Easier than C#. Python was the easiest, followed by Node.

The other part of the question was conveniently ignored :)
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