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For four years, I photographed, indexed and classified my entire house

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Re: For four years, I photographed, indexed and classified my entire house

#61
post #8

I once made a large pencil drawing of my living room using only words. Each word depicted a "thing" at the position I found it. It taught me a lot about what things are. A chair is obviously a separate entity and easy to list, but what about the floor and the separate floorboards? I listed the wall, but I didn't list the paint on the wall. The bookcase took a lot of effort, because I found that each book in it was a…

This is pretty much Van Inwagen's argument in Material Beings -- recommended if you haven't read it! Copied from wiki: "Every composite material object is made up of elementary particles, and the only such composite objects are living organisms. A consequence of this view is that everyday objects such as tables, chairs, cars, buildings, and clouds do not exist. While there seem to be such things, this is only because…

Something I read, not sure if it's true, that the language of a certain Native American tribe (Navaho?) has no nouns. Instead verbs are used to describe things like tables and chairs, as table-ing and chair-ing.

That makes sense since a chair is only a temporary arrangement of elements that used to be (doing) something else, like tree-ing, and will inevitably fall apart and cease to be chair-ing in the future.

It made me think of how names, nouns, and objects are a kind of illusion, a mental convenience of freezing things into place as we talk about them, when in fact everything is in constant flux of coming into being and disintegrating back into that nameless movement.

Re: For four years, I photographed, indexed and classified my entire house

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still dreaming of an image file format where the file begins with the, say, 75x75px image, and then continues with higher and higher resolutions, where the browser can decide when to stop downloading. Ideally they wouldn't be redundant either, e.g. the 2nd block would contain just the data to upscale the 1st block to twice the resolution.. so the "75x75" thumbnail in a hidpi display would just need blocks 1 and 2…

Dream no longer. You just described a progressive JPEG.

The future was 30 years ago.

Re: For four years, I photographed, indexed and classified my entire house

#63
post #23
post #8

I once made a large pencil drawing of my living room using only words. Each word depicted a "thing" at the position I found it. It taught me a lot about what things are. A chair is obviously a separate entity and easy to list, but what about the floor and the separate floorboards? I listed the wall, but I didn't list the paint on the wall. The bookcase took a lot of effort, because I found that each book in it was a…

The things are real, they are emergent patterns. Both each individual pin as well as the whole bag are real. See also https://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/23307/1/wallace_rp%20for%20... .

Great read, thanks.

(The link did not work for me. Archive did: https://web.archive.org/web/20240426090908/https://philsci-a...)

Re: For four years, I photographed, indexed and classified my entire house

#64
post #8

I once made a large pencil drawing of my living room using only words. Each word depicted a "thing" at the position I found it. It taught me a lot about what things are. A chair is obviously a separate entity and easy to list, but what about the floor and the separate floorboards? I listed the wall, but I didn't list the paint on the wall. The bookcase took a lot of effort, because I found that each book in it was a…

This is pretty much Van Inwagen's argument in Material Beings -- recommended if you haven't read it! Copied from wiki: "Every composite material object is made up of elementary particles, and the only such composite objects are living organisms. A consequence of this view is that everyday objects such as tables, chairs, cars, buildings, and clouds do not exist. While there seem to be such things, this is only because…

[dead]

Re: For four years, I photographed, indexed and classified my entire house

#65
post #24
post #8

I once made a large pencil drawing of my living room using only words. Each word depicted a "thing" at the position I found it. It taught me a lot about what things are. A chair is obviously a separate entity and easy to list, but what about the floor and the separate floorboards? I listed the wall, but I didn't list the paint on the wall. The bookcase took a lot of effort, because I found that each book in it was a…

> I now try to stop believing in things. It's mostly just molecules that happen to be in a certain configuration for some time. And so are we. Interesting thought on the books vs pins, made me think. A sheet of paper is a thing. So maybe the book is the bag rather than the shelf.

I considered stuff that I could manipulate freely to be a separate thing. This meant that sheets of paper (being glued to the book) were not separate things. I don't recall checking for loose leaves that I stuck in books, though. I wasn't as critical back then as I'm now :)

Oh, and the idea breaks down entirely for fluid or gaseous things.

Re: For four years, I photographed, indexed and classified my entire house

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty much Van Inwagen's argument in Material Beings -- recommended if you haven't read it! Copied from wiki: "Every composite material object is made up of elementary particles, and the only such composite objects are living organisms. A consequence of this view is that everyday objects such as tables, chairs, cars, buildings, and clouds do not exist. While there seem to be such things, this is only because…

Something I read, not sure if it's true, that the language of a certain Native American tribe (Navaho?) has no nouns. Instead verbs are used to describe things like tables and chairs, as table-ing and chair-ing. That makes sense since a chair is only a temporary arrangement of elements that used to be (doing) something else, like tree-ing, and will inevitably fall apart and cease to be chair-ing in the future. It mad…

That makes the way the Navajo Code Talkers described things make a lot more sense.

Re: For four years, I photographed, indexed and classified my entire house

#68
post #23
post #8

I once made a large pencil drawing of my living room using only words. Each word depicted a "thing" at the position I found it. It taught me a lot about what things are. A chair is obviously a separate entity and easy to list, but what about the floor and the separate floorboards? I listed the wall, but I didn't list the paint on the wall. The bookcase took a lot of effort, because I found that each book in it was a…

The things are real, they are emergent patterns. Both each individual pin as well as the whole bag are real. See also https://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/23307/1/wallace_rp%20for%20... .

Thank you for that link, that is a fascinating read! I have to study the text and its references some more before I can say something sensible.

For now, it seems that I feel most comfortable with the "instrumentalist" view, even though Wallace seems to reject this quite easily. To me it seems clear that most abstractions only exist in the mind, and the recent successes with large language models suggest that the underlying mechanisms for that are not even very complex. Insisting that a fluid must exist somewhere simply because we observe it, does not strike me as a good argument. Centuries of looking for God did not help much to find that entity either.

The anecdote about the person who is shown a university, but who still insists on asking "But where is the university?" also comes to mind. I think most of this is simply a categorical mistake.

So, sure, the things are real, but "real" has a different meaning depending on who you ask.

Re: For four years, I photographed, indexed and classified my entire house

#69
post #68
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The things are real, they are emergent patterns. Both each individual pin as well as the whole bag are real. See also https://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/23307/1/wallace_rp%20for%20... .

Thank you for that link, that is a fascinating read! I have to study the text and its references some more before I can say something sensible. For now, it seems that I feel most comfortable with the "instrumentalist" view, even though Wallace seems to reject this quite easily. To me it seems clear that most abstractions only exist in the mind, and the recent successes with large language models suggest that the unde…

A fluid, or an object like a chair, is not an arbitrary or imaginary structure. The way they behave is factually real, and necessarily so. They are not structures that are invented, they are discovered. This fact of the matter is an objective reality. They are real in that sense. Given the underlying reality (substrate, particle and/or fields or whatever), these patterns couldn’t have been any different. They are real in their nature as structures formed by the underlying substrate. It’s not that a fluid exists “somewhere” (that sounds like a misunderstanding, or a category error as you say), it’s that it’s an observable pattern that emerges as a necessary logical consequence of the underlying substrate. You couldn’t have the latter and not also have the former.

As an analogy, if you take the natural numbers to be real (I’m not saying that you do), then for example the fact that there are prime numbers, and which exact numbers those are, (or in other words, the pattern of prime numbers within the natural numbers) is just as real.

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