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Here’s to the PHP Misfits

melvinmt.com

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Re: Here’s to the PHP Misfits

#21

Post by webjunkie »

"Everything in the box is kind of weird and quirky, but maybe not enough to make it completely worthless. And there’s no clear problem with the set as a whole; it still has all the tools.

Now imagine you meet millions of carpenters using this toolbox who tell you “well hey what’s the problem with these tools? They’re all I’ve ever used and they work fine!” And the carpenters show you the houses they’ve built, where every room is a pentagon and the roof is upside-down. And you knock on the front door and it just collapses inwards and they all yell at you for breaking their door. "

Re: Here’s to the PHP Misfits

#22

Post by debacle »

webjunkie wrote: post #21

"Everything in the box is kind of weird and quirky, but maybe not enough to make it completely worthless. And there’s no clear problem with the set as a whole; it still has all the tools. Now imagine you meet millions of carpenters using this toolbox who tell you “well hey what’s the problem with these tools? They’re all I’ve ever used and they work fine!” And the carpenters show you the houses they’ve built, where e…

> where every room is a pentagon and the roof is upside-down. And you knock on the front door and it just collapses inwards and they all yell at you for breaking their door. "

That's a straw man. There are thousands of sites out there, running on PHP, that are incredibly well-engineered.

Re: Here’s to the PHP Misfits

#23

Post by YmMot »

Saying that PHP has value because it lets beginners get up and running quickly is like suggesting we outfit babies with jetpacks so they can get about quicker without all that crawling nonsense.

I'm being over dramatic of course, but I find it interesting that in a lot of these posts the author doesn't seem to consider if it's really a feature that you can just hack away and not have to think or work to much to get something running.

Hanging out on help forums and irc I see a lot of requests for help in dealing with the fallout from poorly coded PHP applications; whether it's been hacked, they need to update it but the design is poorly thought out, etc etc.

I think in reality like most things, it's shades of grey. It is nice that people can use it to just get up and running quickly but that also lands us tons of poorly coded, brittle, and insecure websites. This of course isn't a problem unique to PHP, but I think because it's considered a "good language for beginners" and the barrier is a little lower, more beginners or "Just hack and slash until I have something that works" types end up using it and the effect is more pronounced.

Re: Here’s to the PHP Misfits

#24

Post by melvinmt »

astrodust wrote: post #19
melvinmt wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing: I'm not interested in being a 'programmer', I just want to build out my product ideas. And right now I do it with the language I know best: PHP.

You're doing yourself a massive disservice to know PHP and only PHP. There are literally hundreds of other languages out there, some good, some bad, but all of them have something to teach you. Remember a programmer is not necessarily interested in programming , but often in having programmed , where the end result is paramount. When I see "PHP programmer" it's all too easy to jump to the conclusion of someone who's…

I'm definitely interested in other languages but as long as I feel I can do the same with PHP it's just wasting opportunity costs to spend much time on it (I could've build a whole new startup in that time). The day PHP doesn't cut it for me anymore is the day when I need to use another language. And by then, I definitely will.

Re: Here’s to the PHP Misfits

#25

Post by Killswitch »

webjunkie wrote: post #21

"Everything in the box is kind of weird and quirky, but maybe not enough to make it completely worthless. And there’s no clear problem with the set as a whole; it still has all the tools. Now imagine you meet millions of carpenters using this toolbox who tell you “well hey what’s the problem with these tools? They’re all I’ve ever used and they work fine!” And the carpenters show you the houses they’ve built, where e…

Stop blaming the tools for the stupidity and unoriginality of the carpenter. The tools don't make the house stable, look good, or even become something people want. How the carpenter uses those tools and puts his own vision into it does.

The same hammer, nails, screwdriver, whatever is used to build mansions... It's also the same tools used to build shitty houses that fall apart... Your point means exactly what the original author meant. Don't worry about the tools used to build your product, just build the damn thing.

Re: Here’s to the PHP Misfits

#26

Post by stevencorona »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #8

Another "Look I can build websites with PHP!" post. The biggest draw of PHP seems to be that there is a large quantity of (often bad) copy paste-able code out there on the internet.

Agree. PHP is the only language where one looks for "snippets" instead of libraries. It's gross.

Re: Here’s to the PHP Misfits

#27

Post by pbiggar »

bennylope wrote: post #10
RageKit wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

imho ruby is simpler than php.

Easier on eyes, more powerful? Surely. But can you just drop .erb files into a directory and turn on mod_ruby? That's the allure of PHP for so many.

No, but you can just run `rails new` and `git push heroku`, which is about as easy as using shared hosting.

Re: Here’s to the PHP Misfits

#28

Post by k3n »

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4247245

Oh, and:

> I said: “give me 3 days” and I learned everything I needed to know about OOP that weekend and showed off a OO-based numbers game on Monday.

Perhaps he learned all that he "needed" to know for that job, but I kind of doubt that he 'learned everything he needed to know about OOP'.

I get so tired of people tooting their own horns, but I guess I should get used to it in this new era of what I like to call conference-coders.

Re: Here’s to the PHP Misfits

#29

Post by shaunxcode »

YmMot wrote: post #23

Saying that PHP has value because it lets beginners get up and running quickly is like suggesting we outfit babies with jetpacks so they can get about quicker without all that crawling nonsense. I'm being over dramatic of course, but I find it interesting that in a lot of these posts the author doesn't seem to consider if it's really a feature that you can just hack away and not have to think or work to much to get s…

I think it's more like arguing that one can safely drive on the freeway with a tricycle, after all it has wheels and it moves quickly if you pedal fast and hard enough.

Re: Here’s to the PHP Misfits

#30

Post by derpmeister »

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