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Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video]

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Re: Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video]

#31
post #8
post #2

Israel has exceptionally great PR, especially with people in power. Palestinians have horrible PR (carrying dead bodies on the crowd's hands in tiny streets, is not something westeners relate to). In Europe a large part of a generation believes that the holocaust is the reason the state of Israel needs to be. Why is Israel not founded on a repurposed piece of Germany then?

Because Europe hates Jews. Israel's founding was the actual final solution the European Allied powers decided for the Jewish question - Hitler thought his would be final, but it was penultimate. Leaving the Jews in Europe would not be tolerated by any party to the war.

Do you have any source for this? I find the general narrative to be one of jew-friendliness over here.

Re: Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video]

#32

This doesn't need to be a link to some random dude's video because there's a perfectly fine Wikipedia article about Bertrand Russell and his views. He held a variety of views and I hope this particular dude doesn't intend to paint Russell as source of truth. > In 1929, he wrote that people deemed "mentally defective" and "feebleminded" should be sexually sterilised because they "are apt to have enormous numbers of il…

Why random Wikipedia rehash and not just link the actual damn letter that OP is reading out?

https://www.connexions.org/CxLibrary/Docs/CX5576-RussellMidE...

http://www.russfound.org/RToP/RToP%20BRPF%20Message.htm

BTW, this trend of sharing videos of some rando fluencer reading someone elses article aloud? Almost always they put their own (or worse...) bias into it, hurting the understanding of the naive viewer. You know how to read, just read it yourself first.

Re: Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video]

#33

Bertrand Russell would have been better served if he had studied his own country's role in creating the Israel/Palestine problem. The British Empire laid the seeds of almost all the inter-country/inter-ethnicity/inter-religious/etc. conflicts plaguing the world today but they have conveniently washed their hands off of all of it. On the Palestine problem; Britain in Palestine 1917-1948 - https://www.youtube.com/watch…

This video is incredible in describing why the British Empire did what it did in the Middle East and the resulting decades-long disaster [1]. Note this is a small portion of a longer 2h video you can find.

Absolutely fascinating historical lesson. tl;dw - the Brits and US along with other colonial powers needed oil, and this region was blessed/cursed with gobs of it, and destabilizing or corrupting governments allowed the colonizers to get more direct access to the goods.

[1] https://youtu.be/mo_ZhGIE8xQ?si=AU5sqYkYoTRbUlBw

Re: Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video]

#34

Bertrand Russell would have been better served if he had studied his own country's role in creating the Israel/Palestine problem. The British Empire laid the seeds of almost all the inter-country/inter-ethnicity/inter-religious/etc. conflicts plaguing the world today but they have conveniently washed their hands off of all of it. On the Palestine problem; Britain in Palestine 1917-1948 - https://www.youtube.com/watch…

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Re: Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video]

#35
post #34

Bertrand Russell would have been better served if he had studied his own country's role in creating the Israel/Palestine problem. The British Empire laid the seeds of almost all the inter-country/inter-ethnicity/inter-religious/etc. conflicts plaguing the world today but they have conveniently washed their hands off of all of it. On the Palestine problem; Britain in Palestine 1917-1948 - https://www.youtube.com/watch…

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Re: Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video]

#36
I'm not sure Russells take on Israel bombing Egypt proved that good -

>The bombing raids deep into Egyptian territory will not persuade the civilian population to surrender, but will stiffen their resolve to resist. This is the lesson of all aerial bombardment...

In practice Israel's attacks on Egypt led on to their one Arab peace treaty nine years later. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt%E2%80%93Israel_peace_tre...)

Re: Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video]

#37
post #2

Israel has exceptionally great PR, especially with people in power. Palestinians have horrible PR (carrying dead bodies on the crowd's hands in tiny streets, is not something westeners relate to). In Europe a large part of a generation believes that the holocaust is the reason the state of Israel needs to be. Why is Israel not founded on a repurposed piece of Germany then?

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Re: Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video]

#38
post #31
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Europe hates Jews. Israel's founding was the actual final solution the European Allied powers decided for the Jewish question - Hitler thought his would be final, but it was penultimate. Leaving the Jews in Europe would not be tolerated by any party to the war.

Do you have any source for this? I find the general narrative to be one of jew-friendliness over here.

Why would narrative have anything to do with reality? If anything, the term "narrative" is usually used to emphasize that something is the opposite of reality.

Re: Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video]

#39
post #32

This doesn't need to be a link to some random dude's video because there's a perfectly fine Wikipedia article about Bertrand Russell and his views. He held a variety of views and I hope this particular dude doesn't intend to paint Russell as source of truth. > In 1929, he wrote that people deemed "mentally defective" and "feebleminded" should be sexually sterilised because they "are apt to have enormous numbers of il…

Why random Wikipedia rehash and not just link the actual damn letter that OP is reading out? https://www.connexions.org/CxLibrary/Docs/CX5576-RussellMidE... http://www.russfound.org/RToP/RToP%20BRPF%20Message.htm BTW, this trend of sharing videos of some rando fluencer reading someone elses article aloud? Almost always they put their own (or worse...) bias into it, hurting the understanding of the naive viewer. You k…

> Why random Wikipedia rehash and not just link the actual damn letter that OP is reading out?

because my point is this guy had different views and the fact that this guy said it does not mean this is automatically "truth".

Re: Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video]

#40

Oof, most people in tech's take on Israel that I ever met usually are along the lines of "I'm not touching that". I'm not gonna pretend I'm on some moral high ground or whatever. As a Jew I'm just happy I wasn't actually born in Israel and didn't inherit all the problems that come with it. Before Oct 7 I was seeing more and more of the arab world normalize relations with Israel. Now it's all gone down the drain again…

>My position on the whole conflict is along the lines of "everybody sucks". That's like calling the holocaust a "conflict" and that in that "conflict" everybody sucked. That's the kind of bothsidesism you would have gotten away with before Israel's genocide[1] of Palestinians which led people to studying the history[2] of Palestine and the history of Zionism and realizing that this "conflict" is not some random accid…

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