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Dog Aging Project

dogagingproject.org

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Re: Dog Aging Project

#71

Post by typewithrhythm »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #40
typewithrhythm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I consider the global society I will be living in, I would prefer to see what an extra 30-50 years of high cognitive function for the people most rewarded by our current system produces, rather than trying to define what a good finite life is from some authoritarian.

> for the people most rewarded by our current system This includes people like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg, who would make the world better off by the cognitive nonexistance.

Tech billionaires are always a weird focus for this kind of sentiment... Compared to the likes of the Rothschilds (just as a well known example) they are harmless, transparent, and meritocratic.

Re: Dog Aging Project

#72

Post by scotty79 »

throw839298 wrote: post #15
jasdi wrote: post #11

Animal domestication is really wild. So we first select for neoteny (playfulness, dependency on caregiver, physical features people like) basically prolonging the juvenile state. Then we put them in controlled environments of abundance, were all their needs are met. Which further diminishes need to reach adult state (with traits like aggressiveness to compete for resources). This abundance causes them to mature/breed…

> neoteny What domesticated animals were bread for "cuteness"? Cats are mice hunters. Most popular dog breeds were selected for killing and dog fight! That "big smile" is not for laughter, but to crush bones! And many domesticated animals can not even reproduce without human assistance. How they would survive in wild?

> What domesticated animals were bread for "cuteness"?

Fairly recent experiments with domestication of foxes show how it might work.

What you select for is behavior. Mainly you breed individuals that neither attack humans nor run away from them. Any other response than aggression or fear is ok. In few generations it turns out individuals selected this way retain more and more juvenile traits.

I think cats never needed to get domesticated because reacting to humans with neither aggression nor fear is within natural range of perfectly normal behaviors of most individuals of this specific niche feline species that got globalized through its relationship with humans.

Re: Dog Aging Project

#73

Post by scotty79 »

xapata wrote: post #69
b112 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visually humans have neotenistic characteristics compared to other primates, so this is quite plausible.

And mentally. We never stop playing. Note the popularity of memes about "adulting".

What's interesting is that rigid culture that forced us to do adult behaviors despite retaining juvenile traits, now when it's getting lifted and replaced with freedom to do whatever you please might leave many individuals maladapted from the evolutionary standpoint to prolonging their genetic line. Which I think is perfectly fine. New generations that are better adapted to the culture of hi-tech freedom will arise from the few that currently accidentally already do the evolutionarily correct thing.

Re: Dog Aging Project

#74

Post by 542354234235 »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #36

Obviously most people disagree, but I don't think we should search for medical advances that make life significantly longer. We should search for ideas that make the finite life on this planet significantly better. A longer life is dangerous. If people could live 150 or 200 years that will make the problems on this planet much worse since the desire to accumulate wealth over that time would be insane.

So instead of fixing problems with wealth inequality, just let people die. Should we ban healthcare after 55 so people won’t take up valuable resources staying alive? I personally would prefer existing and experiencing all life has to offer.

Re: Dog Aging Project

#75

Post by 542354234235 »

abc-1 wrote: post #5
mahkeiro wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The publication page of the site seems to contain quite a few publications. What do you mean by no result?

Nothing useful to improving human quality of life.

Exploring unknown paths that turn out not to lead anywhere useful is still worthwhile, since we can't possibly know beforehand what unknown information will or won't be useful. We don't even know what research might become useful based on new information from some other field or line of research.

Re: Dog Aging Project

#76

Post by dennis_jeeves2 »

scotty79 wrote: post #63
jasdi wrote: post #11

Animal domestication is really wild. So we first select for neoteny (playfulness, dependency on caregiver, physical features people like) basically prolonging the juvenile state. Then we put them in controlled environments of abundance, were all their needs are met. Which further diminishes need to reach adult state (with traits like aggressiveness to compete for resources). This abundance causes them to mature/breed…

Recently I had an interesting thought that basically people did almost the same to themselves spontaneously through culture. Which might influence various aspects of human behavior, like social interactions in general, cooperation and means of competition, mate selection. We might have genetic changes that are not maladaptive only in the culture that introduced them. As technology forces culture to evolve it might tu…

>Recently I had an interesting thought that basically people did almost the same to themselves spontaneously through culture.

I think this already well known in evolutionary biology circles though not through culture. I don't recollect but it was most likely Robin Dunbar who said it, people ganging together to kill of the most annoying/bullying/maladjusted members.

Re: Dog Aging Project

#77

Post by JumpCrisscross »

542354234235 wrote: post #74
vouaobrasil wrote: post #36

Obviously most people disagree, but I don't think we should search for medical advances that make life significantly longer. We should search for ideas that make the finite life on this planet significantly better. A longer life is dangerous. If people could live 150 or 200 years that will make the problems on this planet much worse since the desire to accumulate wealth over that time would be insane.

So instead of fixing problems with wealth inequality, just let people die. Should we ban healthcare after 55 so people won’t take up valuable resources staying alive? I personally would prefer existing and experiencing all life has to offer.

> I personally would prefer existing and experiencing all life has to offer

Almost as much as that, I’d prefer people having a longer time horizon on which they draw their lives.

Re: Dog Aging Project

#78

Post by Beijinger »

jasdi wrote: post #11

Animal domestication is really wild. So we first select for neoteny (playfulness, dependency on caregiver, physical features people like) basically prolonging the juvenile state. Then we put them in controlled environments of abundance, were all their needs are met. Which further diminishes need to reach adult state (with traits like aggressiveness to compete for resources). This abundance causes them to mature/breed…

Dogs domesticated us. Wolves are hunted but dogs a fed, given shelter, love and access to medical care.

Re: Dog Aging Project

#79

Post by bumby »

scotty79 wrote: post #63
jasdi wrote: post #11

Animal domestication is really wild. So we first select for neoteny (playfulness, dependency on caregiver, physical features people like) basically prolonging the juvenile state. Then we put them in controlled environments of abundance, were all their needs are met. Which further diminishes need to reach adult state (with traits like aggressiveness to compete for resources). This abundance causes them to mature/breed…

Recently I had an interesting thought that basically people did almost the same to themselves spontaneously through culture. Which might influence various aspects of human behavior, like social interactions in general, cooperation and means of competition, mate selection. We might have genetic changes that are not maladaptive only in the culture that introduced them. As technology forces culture to evolve it might tu…

Although humans may be reaching reproductive age faster, aren't we generally reproducing later in life? That seems counter to the OPs point.

Re: Dog Aging Project

#80

Post by JumpCrisscross »

graemep wrote: post #58
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most dog breeds have been bred primarily for a specific practical purpose Sure. But most of those traits are shallow. Let the breed go stray and many characteristics go away. The neoteny does not. > Not necessarily exactly cuteness The neoteny—large eyes and heads, for example—is precisely cuteness. Not all breeds are equally neotenic. But they’re very much not wolves.

> Sure. But most of those traits are shallow. Let the breed go stray and many characteristics go away. A lot of characteristics seem to be bred in and instinctive - breed specific behaviour occurs without training. Strays do not breed pure so of course breed specific characteristics are lost. > The neoteny—large eyes and heads, for example—is precisely cuteness To an extent yes. The specific trait mentioned in the co…

> breed specific behaviour occurs without training. Strays do not breed pure so of course breed specific characteristics are lost

My point is neoteny almost isn’t breed specific. Let strays breed and it’s preserved—stray dogs are cuter than wolves.

Wild dogs don’t become wolves. (They also stop being French bulldogs.)

> Not all neotonous traits are physically cute

Almost all physically-cute traits are neutenous.

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