Live data from Hacker News

How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

economist.com

231–240 of 249 posts

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think anybody (especially a private employer, but really anyone ) hiring somebody from an adversary country who thinks they can conduct an effective background investigation is fooling themselves. There's not really any avenue of investigation (other than vetting via your native intelligence service) that doesn't lead back to the foreign government, or an agency they control.

Nobody thought they were hiring people from North Korea, just saying.

Which is orthogonal to the case of knowingly hiring someone from a place where you can't conduct an effective background check.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#232
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> This is completely irrelevant, as there's no evidence that the US uses its state intelligence apparatus to engage in industrial espionage Apart from recent and historical evidence to the contrary[0;1], one has to expect that every member of the G20 group is doing the same against everyone else - and has also been doing so for decades. Perhaps more importantly, you have to assume that every intelligence agency in th…

Your first citation [0] does not actually provide evidence for the claim that the US government is engaging in IP theft and passing that IP to US companies - spying on a defense minister (even though it's something that shouldn't happen given that the US and France are allies) is categorically different, and is something that you would expect countries to do (even if be disappointed at them) for defense and strategic purposes only, without any IP theft. You'd need additional evidence to indicate IP theft.

Your second citation [1] links to no sources and makes the massive error that the NSA is a department of the CIA. I don't think that it's trustworthy, although I can look up the story later and if I find other sources we can see if it's plausible.

> Perhaps more importantly, you have to assume that every intelligence agency in that same group are constantly (re)compromising and extending their foothold in their peers' communications systems as much as they can.

Yes, I think this is a reasonable assumption - I'm not saying that it's right, but it's reasonable. However, that's still categorically different from the IP theft being discussed, in the context of being able to trust your knowledge workforce and having good cyber security.

Thanks for the analogy to the Great Game, this is interesting!

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like what? I cited two well documented situations where the PRC paid Chinese expats to steal specific materials to help PLA owned firms develop specific products. Show me something other than whataboutism and double talk.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

If you seriously think it's possible, than you yourself should be worried a lot -- the last thing the West needs is even stronger China with its enormous industrial base and control of Siberian resources.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many other countries would help people with opportunistic industrial espionage so there is a distinct advantage to proactively working with their spy agencies. This is not the case in the West, there is still industrial espionage but it's established and not opportunistic so far fewer people are involved.

Also, you can point out what you believe to be the bad behavior of the West and nobody will accuse you of being racist...

That's because "the West" is not a race.

Maybe there's a reason you're so butt-hurt that people keep accusing you of being racist.

Have you tried just not being racist?

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If you seriously think it's possible, than you yourself should be worried a lot -- the last thing the West needs is even stronger China with its enormous industrial base and control of Siberian resources.

It's already started. China sees Russia's annexation of Outer Manchuria as a great historical wrong:

https://lansinginstitute.org/2024/02/16/chinas-global-triump...

China has reverted to using Chinese place names for cities and regions in the Far East. e.g. "Vladivostok" is now officially "Haishenwai":

https://cepa.org/article/goodbye-vladivostok-hello-haishenwa...

https://asiatimes.com/2023/03/china-eyes-russias-far-east-re...

Russia is in demographic decline. China simply has more people to throw at the problem, even amid it's own demographic decline:

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/content-series/russia-tomorr...

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-population-drop-2046-worst-c...

Killing off even more Russians in a pointless war of choice in Ukraine isn't helping matters.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#239
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This mindset is driven by hatred of White people and ignorance of White achievement and culture. Those are the lies people are telling you to encourage fear and hate - that someone out there hates you. I truly don't think about white people, achievement or culture, ever, and I never hear anyone discuss them, except white supremacist leaders trying to create hate and fear. You might as well say I hate people in some…

White people are a tiny global minority, and yet everywhere we exist in numbers is currently a target of mass immigration of non-Whites. This is not an accident. Soon there will be nowhere on earth for our people to live in peace and harmony among ourselves. You're mistaken if you think it's a virtue to ignore this. If you are White, it's disgraceful. If you have White kids, it's unconscionable. I'm sure you realise…

What a hot steaming load of White Supremacist Bullshit.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#240
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This mindset is driven by hatred of White people and ignorance of White achievement and culture. Those are the lies people are telling you to encourage fear and hate - that someone out there hates you. I truly don't think about white people, achievement or culture, ever, and I never hear anyone discuss them, except white supremacist leaders trying to create hate and fear. You might as well say I hate people in some…

White people are a tiny global minority, and yet everywhere we exist in numbers is currently a target of mass immigration of non-Whites. This is not an accident. Soon there will be nowhere on earth for our people to live in peace and harmony among ourselves. You're mistaken if you think it's a virtue to ignore this. If you are White, it's disgraceful. If you have White kids, it's unconscionable. I'm sure you realise…

> I'm sure you realise that I could turn back all of the things you said on your own position. I see endless demonization, fear-mongering, prohibition, ostracism, censorship and lies about White nationalism than any other movement in the West. Your government hates White people. It misleads you to hate us and to fear White collectivism.

I really don't. If you could give me some examples, it would help. Also, I don't think of 'turning back' what you say, but maybe I misunderstand you or just don't know about something.

> White people are a tiny global minority, and yet everywhere we exist in numbers is currently a target of mass immigration of non-Whites. This is not an accident.

Do you mean that someone or some group is intending to disrupt 'white' societies? Who and why?

If whites are a minority, normal demographic patterns that cause change over time would seem likely to cause the minority communities to become more integrated - just a matter of numbers

> are despised minorities in a soulless economic zone? are freely assaulted and killed by foreign authorities?

Could you share some examples of these things happening? I really don't know about it.

As just one anecdote, I've lived in places where 'white' people were a small minority, and there was no problem at all. There was no mention of or discussion of a problem.

The only discrimination I see in my experience is when other people are minorities among whites - then some white people discriminate against the minority.

> Soon there will be nowhere on earth for our people to live in peace and harmony among ourselves.

Your idea of 'our people' is, I think, one that few share. Most white-skinned people don't identify with skin color, in my experience. For example, I far more often hear people say they are part Polish, Irish, etc. I've only heard very few - white supremacists - say they only want to live with other white-skinned people.

That doesn't mean you can't have your perspective. But other people aren't attacking you - they don't even think or care about it. Twisting it into fear and hate is what evil leaders do, to get people to do evil things.

Also, you are responsible for the consequences of your words and actions (and so am I) - if people die, you have the blood on your hands. There's no excuse for it. And it's predictable that spreading hate, especially white supremacy, leads to evil results.

Post reply on HN