Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Zombocom Problem

newsletter.squishy.computer

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 83 posts

Re: The Zombocom Problem

#51

Post by berkes »

benatkin wrote: post #18

While I’m not quite sure what we’re talking about here in terms of platforms, I’ll mention a couple of personal and team server platforms that are subject to the Zombocom Problem and a couple that aren’t. WordPress, NextCloud, and OwnCloud try to be all you need and even though they have plugins they seem subject to the Zombocom problem, because stuff gets shoehorned into a particular app. On the other hand there is…

WordPress is the exact example of the opposite of your point. WP started as the edge of a wedge. But contrary to the examples in TLA, it didn't become an everything platform deliberate and predetermined, but organical and messy.

It started as a "blogging tool" and only that - it still is to some extent in 2024: it still has traces of "blogs" in its DBA, code, templating and so on.

It was successfull exactly because of that focus. As opposed to Joomla! and Drupal and many others that never even made it. WordPress gained a "plugin system" but later than most others and far more limited. In the beginning plugins were really to customize your blog - but it was still very much a blog.

When blogging wasn't that popular anymore - relatively, it pivoted into more of a brochureware CMS by leveraging the plugin system, but core was very much still a blog. I can't recall how many requests I had from customers to "remove this confusing blog-thing, we don't use that don't we". It could not be removed.

Then, after a while, it became the everything CMS. Slowly and rediculously clumsy. It still is. It's far worse at "being a webshop" than almost all dedicated webshop software one can choose instead. It's rediculously inadequate for anything close to "social media" - or user-generated content (due to its depenance on- and design of- the caching, mostly).

So, WP may be some "everything platform" by popularity and common use. But it's both bad at this and never predetermined to be that.

Re: The Zombocom Problem

#52

Post by conartist6 »

creamyhorror wrote: post #34

This was previously phrased in startup advice as "start with a single vertical and generalize afterwards", "don't try to boil the ocean", etc. A lot of less-experienced entrepreneurs start with wanting to conquer all markets with their new paradigm, but the truth is you first need to capture specific segments/verticals or you'll be spread too thin. Similarly, with a software solution, you need to make it integrate in…

I'd add my own piece of advice: try to avoid violent growth. Slapping an adapter on something is usually a kind of violent growth. An adapter might 100x your pool of potential users overnight, but it can also easily lead to situations where people depend on your product but have expectations that you are completely unaware of, thus blocking you off from the next tier of growth.

Re: The Zombocom Problem

#53

Post by robertlagrant »

> It can be anything, but first it has to be something specific.

Spreadsheets definitely feel more like a platform. They aren't specific to what they started out on - they're very general purpose. The metaphor of "grid of numbers you can do stuff with" is extremely not-product-specific.

Re: The Zombocom Problem

#54

Post by robertlagrant »

jcynix wrote: post #27
block_dagger wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After looking at the history of Amazon, I'm convinced their early success was due more to ruthless business practices than being an especially good book store.

Ruthless business practice? Maybe too, but very good customer support from my point as a customer, e.g. - a shopping cart which kept my choices forever. I remember a startup clone about 20+ years ago here in Europe, whose shopping cart automatically cleared after 24 hours. That was annoying if you wanted to look for some reviews for a book later in, before deciding to buy. - the suggestions engine "customers who boug…

The thing I always remember was a former colleague bought a TV from Amazon in about 2008. He got an email a few weeks later from Amazon saying that they'd refunded some of his money, as the TV had gone on sale not long after he'd bought it. That is insanely good customer service.

Re: The Zombocom Problem

#55

Post by fragmede »

berkes wrote: post #51
benatkin wrote: post #18

While I’m not quite sure what we’re talking about here in terms of platforms, I’ll mention a couple of personal and team server platforms that are subject to the Zombocom Problem and a couple that aren’t. WordPress, NextCloud, and OwnCloud try to be all you need and even though they have plugins they seem subject to the Zombocom problem, because stuff gets shoehorned into a particular app. On the other hand there is…

WordPress is the exact example of the opposite of your point. WP started as the edge of a wedge. But contrary to the examples in TLA, it didn't become an everything platform deliberate and predetermined, but organical and messy. It started as a "blogging tool" and only that - it still is to some extent in 2024: it still has traces of "blogs" in its DBA, code, templating and so on. It was successfull exactly because o…

What would you choose instead, in this day and age?

Re: The Zombocom Problem

#56

Post by netcan »

I agree, but I also think "how people fail at X" is a biased frame, when X is a risky, high value, naivety prone goal.

"Building a platform" is such an X. A high risk/reward goal where lots of failure is expected.

Programming languages, operating systems, hypertext, www. The earliest versions may have been small and made for a specific need... but the generalization attempts came soon and excitable zombocon words came out of mouth.

So sure... targeting your new programming language to a specific use case is a strong starting strategy. But.. it's a programming language. A platform.

The whole information superhighway was a big zombocon in the 90s. That's why the parody resonated in the first place.

I'm not entirely convinced that general platformish ideas cannot succeed. They're just hard and tend to attract the naive because if the massive potential.

Re: The Zombocom Problem

#57

Post by vollbrecht »

benatkin wrote: post #18

While I’m not quite sure what we’re talking about here in terms of platforms, I’ll mention a couple of personal and team server platforms that are subject to the Zombocom Problem and a couple that aren’t. WordPress, NextCloud, and OwnCloud try to be all you need and even though they have plugins they seem subject to the Zombocom problem, because stuff gets shoehorned into a particular app. On the other hand there is…

I think NextCloud and OwnCloud are also bad examples, as in the beginning they started with the clear goal to replace Dropbox with a selfhosted alternative. Only later in live they become what they are now, so the original point still stands.

Re: The Zombocom Problem

#58

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #29

This may be a bit of an old allusion, but Lotus Notes is a great example of this. Notes is fundamentally a programmable, non-relational, client/server replicated database with a UI on top of it. It's a workflow engine for accomplishing whatever business processes a company might have that can be made to keep working pretty well when the client computer is offline. It can be anything. But it is remembered first and fo…

That's HCL Notes, now... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HCL_Notes

Re: The Zombocom Problem

#59

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

This is dead on.

I think most of us have had the issue with being told to "Write me a Facebook."

I've done exactly what the article talks about, except not for something that makes money. It's a free platform that Serves a fairly neglected demographic.

Starting small is key.

I always say "Success breeds success." I set humble goals, succeed, then raise the bar on the next one.

This is really good for mentoring folks, as well. Get them used to succeeding. It may start with stupidly simple stuff, but, before you know it, they are doing really complex stuff.

Re: The Zombocom Problem

#60

Post by HPsquared »

twotwotwo wrote: post #5

I remember, when I was just starting, the founder of the company saying that if you tell him you're offering an 'engine' that's mostly saying you don't have an app. Of course, some successfully sell 'engines', but I think there's a basic truth that you need users to make your business work and make what you're building better and battle-hardened, and to get those users you usually have to be providing just what someo…

Having a real product is a costly signal (i.e. a genuine one) that the developers are doing enough dogfooding.
Post reply on HN