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How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

economist.com

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Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#211

Post by mmooss »

RonaldDump wrote: post #209
mmooss wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of who you know, don't you think these claims are partly driven by, and drive, xenophobia - the same xenophobia and nationalism being applied to many things?

So? You might need to confront the possibility that these are not the evils you've been led to believe they are. It appears they may well be healthy, rational, vital traits for a people to survive and thrive. A population that actively resists or perverts these natural behaviours through xenophilia is not long for this world.

I don't need to wonder, I can see the vivid trail through history of oppression, hate, violence, and destruction of humanity and everything it builds.

> natural behaviours

Always the argument of people perpetrating evil (or nonsense): It's natural! Murder, rape, hatred ... killing your sibling or parent is natural - it's in the Bible! Starvation, disease, warfare, cheating on your partner, theft, ... every bad thing is natural.

So is every good thing, and many/most/all cultures have long said you have the moral choice, in Abrahamic religions ever since we left Eden. We have the knowledge of good and evil.

> A population that actively resists or perverts these natural behaviours through xenophilia is not long for this world.

Nothing is worse for humanity than warfare, and it's common cause is xenophobia and nationalism. The West has done very well embracing new immigrants. The USA is almost all immigrants or their decendents.

You don't have to embrace hate or these nonsense arguments. The treasures of freedom and peace and justice are at hand; you only have to take them up. They are far more capable and productive than these fears - look at the most free, most safe, most prosperous countries in the history of the world, with no peers or competition. They are all built on universal human rights - universal!

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#212

Post by Spooky23 »

RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #206
throw10920 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Like what?

I cited two well documented situations where the PRC paid Chinese expats to steal specific materials to help PLA owned firms develop specific products.

Show me something other than whataboutism and double talk.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#213

Post by RonaldDump »

mmooss wrote: post #211
RonaldDump wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? You might need to confront the possibility that these are not the evils you've been led to believe they are. It appears they may well be healthy, rational, vital traits for a people to survive and thrive. A population that actively resists or perverts these natural behaviours through xenophilia is not long for this world.

I don't need to wonder, I can see the vivid trail through history of oppression, hate, violence, and destruction of humanity and everything it builds. > natural behaviours Always the argument of people perpetrating evil (or nonsense): It's natural! Murder, rape, hatred ... killing your sibling or parent is natural - it's in the Bible! Starvation, disease, warfare, cheating on your partner, theft, ... every bad thing…

[flagged]

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#214

Post by throw10920 »

throw10920 wrote: post #210
RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

And to be absolutely clear: it should be obvious, but I am not stating that CIA intervening in other counties' economies isn't bad - just that it is objectively difficult than IP theft of the kind the PRC engages in.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#215

Post by daft_pink »

I’ve been in a meeting where the Chinese professor in USA on a joint country course sends many of their students to a technology conference and I’m not sure how, but most of his students who attended the conference somehow decided to write their reports on US military uses of technology instead of what Facebook or Google demoed. This meeting had students attend from both China and USA.

I’m sure he has plausible deniability, but I left that meeting thinking wow that professor is really a spy. This was before the pandemic.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#216

Post by mmooss »

RonaldDump wrote: post #213
mmooss wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't need to wonder, I can see the vivid trail through history of oppression, hate, violence, and destruction of humanity and everything it builds. > natural behaviours Always the argument of people perpetrating evil (or nonsense): It's natural! Murder, rape, hatred ... killing your sibling or parent is natural - it's in the Bible! Starvation, disease, warfare, cheating on your partner, theft, ... every bad thing…

[flagged]

This is just ignorance and hate, fabrications that don't pass even the most basic examination, all to rationalize racist white supremacy.

If you want to identify dangers to you, don't do it by skin color. Look at the people telling you to be afraid, to hate, urging you to it. Those aren't good people, and they don't have your interests at heart. They are using you for truly bad things. No respected leader in US history or elsewhere does those things - think of Washington, Lincoln, Churchill, etc.

The only problem is you believing this nonsense. Stop and I promise, your life will be easier and all these supposed threats will vanish as soon as they leave your mind. I spend much of my life in integrated environments, with absolutely no hint of a problem. Everything is fine, until the bigots show up.

Now if we could deport bigotry, imagine how much more peace and happiness we'd have. What a waste of life it is.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#217

Post by brookst »

dttze wrote: post #116
brookst wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which of our allies make China look like a saint?

Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza, has terror bombed Lebanon, and is stealing land in Syria for Greater Israel.

I agree. But you think that makes China’s treatment of the Uyghurs look saintly? Really? Saintly?

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#218

Post by fspeech »

demarq wrote: post #187
qwezxcrty wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can find the template of this report online by just Googling "出国留学人员学习/研修情况报告", it has English translation and appears to have a "Professor's Evaluation" section to be filled and signed by the foreign advisor. There might be something else but this looks like a progress evaluation form and is hardly concerning.

> There might be something else but this looks like a progress evaluation form and is hardly concerning. There is indeed something else > An online announcement from January 2019 by the Chinese consulate in Belfast even suggests recipients should report important papers published, patents obtained, and inventions made by those they work with at British universities. I was unable to load the url for this, but it's not…

Published papers and patents are public information.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#219

Post by RonaldDump »

mmooss wrote: post #216
RonaldDump wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is just ignorance and hate, fabrications that don't pass even the most basic examination, all to rationalize racist white supremacy. If you want to identify dangers to you, don't do it by skin color. Look at the people telling you to be afraid, to hate, urging you to it. Those aren't good people, and they don't have your interests at heart. They are using you for truly bad things. No respected leader in US histo…

[flagged]

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#220

Post by [deleted] »

RonaldDump wrote: post #219
mmooss wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just ignorance and hate, fabrications that don't pass even the most basic examination, all to rationalize racist white supremacy. If you want to identify dangers to you, don't do it by skin color. Look at the people telling you to be afraid, to hate, urging you to it. Those aren't good people, and they don't have your interests at heart. They are using you for truly bad things. No respected leader in US histo…

[flagged]

[deleted]
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