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Jimmy Carter has died

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Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#61
post #60
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think our culture needs some general awareness and “antibodies” against Narcissism, and emotional manipulation in general. People seem generally unaware of, and as a result easily manipulated and controlled by people with these behaviors. I only became conscious of it after reading a book about communication where I learned how emotional manipulation worked- and then realized I was in a relationship with someone do…

What's the book?!

“When I say no I feel guilty” which is about assertive communication, which is essentially the opposite of emotionally manipulative communication. Also the blogger “The Last Psychiatrist” has good information on Narcissism.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#62
post #20

Looking back, to me he was a much better president then people believed in the 80s. I believe if he got re-elected in 1980, the US would be in a much better place. One thing, it could be argued real work on Climate Change would have begun in 1981 as opposed to where we are now, which is just watching the average probably blowing past 3C in around 70 years from now. For his loss in 1980, I still blame Kennedy. RIP, he…

After Ted Kennedy killed a woman[1], he never should've tried to run for president. And I say that as a Cape Cod native. When he finally died in 2009 he was literally replaced in the Senate by a Republican, throwing the Democrats into chaos. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident

As the bumper sticker went:

"More people died at Chappaquiddick than at Three Mile Island."

On the "October Surprise" topic that other posters have asked for more information about -- it's a fascinating story that ultimately leads to the Iran-Contra scandal:

Here's a transcript of a 1987 broadcast by The Other American's Radio about the October Surprise:

https://www.donhopkins.com/home/catalog/text/october-suprise...

And a paper I wrote about it in 1988 for a university writing class, with lots citations to sources I looked up in newspaper microfilm archives (what researchers had to do before google and youtube and wikipedia were a thing), plus a couple links at the end I added later when I transcribed it to html, once the world wide web existed:

https://www.donhopkins.com/home/documents/OctoberSurprise.ht...

Here's my criticism of Carter's response to the hostage crisis, and a description of the failed hostage rescue mission that Oliver North, Richard Secord, and Albert Hakim sabotaged, years before they caused the Iran Contra Scandal by trading arms to Iran for money and hostages, then illegally channeling the money to the Contras:

>III. Carter's Response

>From the beginning, President Jimmy Carter gave the hostage crisis a high profile. It was the focus his and his country's attention, day after day. But that was exactly wrong approach to take if he wanted to get the hostages out, without making it seem like he conceded to terrorism. Not only did the Iranians benefit from the publicity, but the constant crisis took time away and attention from other important problems, like the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and the 1980 presidential election.

>What Carter should have recognized was that there were different factions in the Iranian government competing with each other for power, and the hostage situation would go on as long as the Iranians could use the situation to their political advantage. If there was not as much attention on the hostage crisis, it would have not been as useful a propaganda tool.

>The President threatened a military response if the hostages were harmed or put on trial. The threat was deterrent, not coercive. Such threats are most effective at keeping somebody from doing something they haven't already done. The threat worked. Iran stopped saying they were going to put the hostages on trial and execute them.

>Carter considered several courses of military action. He decided not to mine Iranian ports, as that would interfere with other countries, and might provoke the Iranians to harm the hostages. He did however order that a rescue plan be drawn up, but he hoped it wouldn't have to be used.

>The other effective measures he took were to freeze Iranian monetary assets, and to impose an arms embargo and economic sanctions. His goal was to get other countries to go along with the embargo and sanctions.

>IV. The Hostage Rescue Mission

>On April 23, 1980, an abortive Iranian hostage rescue mission took place, conducted under the utmost secrecy. The plan was to storm the American embassy in Tehran, and bring home the hostages.

>8 helicopters, 6 C-130 transport planes, and 93 Delta force commandoes secretly invaded Iran. They were to rendezvous at a place in Iran they called Desert One, move out to another point called Desert Two, and then go on to Tehran to rescue the hostages. But Delta force never made it to Desert Two or Tehran. The mission was aborted after three of the eight helicopters failed, on the way to Desert One. The operation was a miserable failure, resulting in an accident that caused the loss of 8 American lives. Later investigation revealed a surprising level of negligence. [4] [7] [13]

>Just before the rescue mission took place, several other countries had finally agreed to level economic sanctions on Iran. Some of them agreed to the sanctions because they thought that if they did, the U.S. would not take any military action. They were quite irate when they heard about the rescue mission after the fact.

>At least three central figures in the Iran-Contra Scandal were involved with the Iranian hostage rescue mission: Secord, Hakim, and North.

>General Richard Secord helped to organize the abortive rescue mission. After the first mission failed, he was the head of the planning group that eventually decided against another rescue attempt. Because the whereabouts of the hostages were unknown, the second rescue attempt (the October Surprise that the Reagan-Bush campaign was so worried about) never happened.

>Secord was later suspended from his Pentagon post because of the EATSCO probe. EATSCO is a company that belongs to Edwin Wilson, the CIA operative who is currently serving time in a federal maximum-security prison for, among other things, secretly supplying 43,000 pounds of plastic explosives to Kadaffi. [21]

>In 1981, he became Chief Middle East arms-sales adviser to Secretary of Defense Casper W. Weinberger. [21]

>Albert Hakim is a wealthy arms merchant, an Iranian exile, and CIA informant, who had a "sensitive intelligence" role in 1980 hostage rescue. He worked for the CIA near the Turkish boarder, handling the logistics of the rescue mission in Tehran. Hakim purchased trucks and vans, and rented a warehouse on the edge of Tehran to hide them in until they were needed for the operation. Unexpectedly however, he skipped town the day before the rescue mission. [2] [13] [25] Later on, in July, 1981, Hakim approached the CIA, with a plan to gain favor with the Iranian government by selling it arms. [22]

>Oliver North led a secret detachment to eastern Turkey. He was in the mother ship on the Turkish border awaiting the cue from Secord to fly into Teheran and rescue the hostages. [2] [25] After the first aborted rescue mission, he worked with Secord on a second rescue plan.

>According to the October Surprise theory, Secord, North and Hakim did not intend Desert One to carry through. The miserable failure of Carter's Desert One rescue attempt may have been deliberate.

[More intriguing details about the sabotage, election, Iran Contra Scandal, and citations in the full paper: https://www.donhopkins.com/home/documents/OctoberSurprise.ht... ]

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#63
post #21

He sure seemed like a legitimately good man. I think one of my favorite stories about him is that he helped resolve a nuclear reactor meltdown https://www.military.com/history/how-jimmy-carter-saved-cana...

> He sure seemed like a legitimately good man.

And I think this is where politics around the world has gone wrong.

A decade or two ago I would genuinely have been happy for the leader of a country, or mayor or whatever elected leader to date my sister or to watch my kids or something like that.

These days it feels like the most narcissistic a-holes get voted in. I wouldn't trust these people with my dog, and basically every country is suffering for it.

(Jacinda Ardern being the massive exception. I'm sure there are more exceptions too)

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#64
post #20

Looking back, to me he was a much better president then people believed in the 80s. I believe if he got re-elected in 1980, the US would be in a much better place. One thing, it could be argued real work on Climate Change would have begun in 1981 as opposed to where we are now, which is just watching the average probably blowing past 3C in around 70 years from now. For his loss in 1980, I still blame Kennedy. RIP, he…

After Ted Kennedy killed a woman[1], he never should've tried to run for president. And I say that as a Cape Cod native. When he finally died in 2009 he was literally replaced in the Senate by a Republican, throwing the Democrats into chaos. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident

Kennedy killed at least three different attempts at universal healthcare by three different presidents (Nixon, Carter, and Clinton) because he delusionally believed he not only could win the Democratic nomination for President (he never did), but that he could win the general election, Chappaquiddick baggage and all, and that universal healthcare would be his legacy--a kind of new New Deal. This isn't just my interpretation of him and his actions, but Jimmy Carter's himself, who went so far as to express uncharacteristic spite towards Ted for this very reason: https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2010/09/16/12991...

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#65
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Trump won the cold war for Putin.

The entire GOP being a vapid, seducible, corrupt, callous, greedy bunch of unfaithful morons is what greased the wheels. The other side being differently sold and bought is a different flavor of crap sandwich.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#66
As president, Carter gave the green light for Doo-hwan Chun to use force against the pro-democracy protests in Gwangju, S Korea.

Later, sent to N Korea by president Clinton, he massively exceeded his authority and made a sweetheart deal that guaranteed N Korea would eventually build nukes. President Clinton found out about the deal on CNN with everyone else and never used Carter again.

He also sandbagged president Reagan by taking a trip to the Soviet Union and convincing the leaders there that Reagan was not serious about reducing or eliminating nuclear weapons. This set back progress on reducing nuclear weapons for several years. In the end, Reagan was finally able to get them back to the table and eliminated a class of nukes, reducing others.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#67

One could argue he set the stage for the 1980s economic boom by making short term sacrifices that cost him re-election. It was his administration that did market-oriented deregulation around airlines and trucking industries (meaning you didn't need to have a licence to ship goods across state lines and go through monopoly trucking companies to get your goods to market) as well as appointed Paul Volcker as Fed chair w…

[deleted]

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#68

One could argue he set the stage for the 1980s economic boom by making short term sacrifices that cost him re-election. It was his administration that did market-oriented deregulation around airlines and trucking industries (meaning you didn't need to have a licence to ship goods across state lines and go through monopoly trucking companies to get your goods to market) as well as appointed Paul Volcker as Fed chair w…

For these reasons, Jimmy Carter is my third-favorite president of the 20th century, behind my favorite, Calvin Coolidge, and my second-favorite, Dwight Eisenhower. I am a very big fan of Paul Volcker and I’m glad Jimmy Carter nominated him as chair of the Fed. I wish Reagan kept Volcker as chair during Reagan’s second term.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#69

RIP Jimmy Carter. A model of living meaningfully in old age. The Onion has many funny bits on the guy's age[0]. "Former President Jimmy Carter, 98, announced Tuesday that he had gotten his recent vasectomy reversed," "Jimmy Carter Makes Pact With Dianne Feinstein That If Both Single In 50 Years They’ll Marry Each Other,""Jimmy Carter Concerned Desire For Fresh Faces In Democratic Party May Hurt His Chances In 2020" I…

He gave his life to compassion in service to all of humanity.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#70
I'd love to know what people think he could have done differently about the hostages. Bear in mind that he would have been as politically ruined by a parade of dead hostage bodies so any "go harder" proposal has its own risks. If only the choppers hadn't failed?

Iran knew it could wedge him and wait for the new president.

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