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Fish 4.0: The Fish of Theseus

fishshell.com

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Re: Fish 4.0: The Fish of Theseus

#51

Post by ComputerGuru »

aragilar wrote: post #35
_zagj wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's strange how the article starts off complaining about C++'s platform "issues": > We’ve experienced some pain with C++. In short: > tools and compiler/platform differences before conceding that, because of Rust, they 1) are actually dropping support for a platform they previously supported and 2) can only support (in theory) a small fraction of those platforms supported by g++, but that that's OK because those are…

Yeah, it's somewhat interesting that they point to Debian's popcon (which is opt-in), when the statistics are basically coming from amd64, whereas I think it would be much more interesting (if possible) to see what the number of installs of fish are on openwrt (and other embedded distros). Currently the openwrt fish install is ~2MB (which is massive on a router), I wonder what the new install size will be with the ru…

Rust binaries, once stripped, are not necessarily much fatter than their C++ counterparts. We're not expecting a huge increase there.

Embedded distros should still be supported, though you might need to cross-compile for a few depending on rust toolchain availability. Cygwin is supposed to be getting a working rust target at some point, but who knows?

Re: Fish 4.0: The Fish of Theseus

#52

Post by ComputerGuru »

sunshowers wrote: post #19
epage wrote: post #13

> The one goal of the port we did not succeed in was removing CMake. > That’s because, while cargo is great at building things, it is very simplistic at installing them. Cargo wants everything in a few neat binaries, and that isn’t our use case. Fish has about 1200 .fish scripts (961 completions, 217 associated functions), as well as about 130 pages of documentation (as html and man pages), and the web-config tool an…

(hi Ed!) I would definitely love to see Cargo have the ability to do this -- it means that `cargo install --locked` stays as a viable approach. It probably won't apply to fish, but I think being able to run a post-install command from the binary you just installed would suffice for my needs.

We've actually added support to make single-binary fish deployments possible by (optionally) bundling static resources that would be part of the CMake-based deployment into the binary itself and having it unwrap those on first execution. The limitations of Cargo and the idiomatic `cargo install` usage primarily motivated this.

Re: Fish 4.0: The Fish of Theseus

#53

Post by ComputerGuru »

WD-42 wrote: post #29

Congrats to the Fish team. The best shell just got better. How about updating the project tagline to: "Finally, a shell for the 00s!"

Thanks but one cannot be too ambitious like that! '00s would mean the end of zip drives, dealing with unstandardized flash drives flakier than the floppy disks of old, and supporting point-and-shoot digital cameras!

Re: Fish 4.0: The Fish of Theseus

#54

Post by ComputerGuru »

akdor1154 wrote: post #33

I'd be really interested to hear from distro packagers how this is going - how amenable is rust-fish to being packaged following e.g. Debian guidelines?

We took an incredible amount of care to consider the package maintainer requirements for our the most popular distributions using/distributing fish. One of our maintainers is very careful about letting us know when we're doing something that might upset distro packagers, and we're constantly letting package maintainer guidelines and requirements influence how we structure fish itself and which dependencies we pull in.

Re: Fish 4.0: The Fish of Theseus

#55

Post by thayne »

_zagj wrote: post #22
freedomben wrote: post #12

> The one platform we care about a bit that it does not currently seem to have enough support for is Cygwin, which is sad, but we have to make a cut somewhere. > We’re also losing Cygwin as a supported platform for the time being, because there is no Rust target for Cygwin and so no way to build binaries targeting it. We hope that this situation changes in future, but we had also hoped it would improve during the alm…

It's strange how the article starts off complaining about C++'s platform "issues": > We’ve experienced some pain with C++. In short: > tools and compiler/platform differences before conceding that, because of Rust, they 1) are actually dropping support for a platform they previously supported and 2) can only support (in theory) a small fraction of those platforms supported by g++, but that that's OK because those are…

Neither c++ nor rust is a clear winner in portability and platform support. C++ is available on more platforms, but in some ways rust makes it easier to support multiple platforms than it is in c++, for example using rustup to install the latest version of the compiler.

What they got from this isn't that they can now support more platforms, but that they now don't have to spend as much effort on supporting dealing with differences between different platforms.

Re: Fish 4.0: The Fish of Theseus

#56

Post by amluto »

pzmarzly wrote: post #15
scop wrote: post #11

I remember switching from bash to zsh a few years back and thinking I was the bees knees. After the switch trying other shells seemed like bike-shedding because, I mean, what more could a shell? Then I got a new computer and decided to start from scratch with my tooling and downloaded fish. I was shocked how it instantly made zsh feel cumbersome and ancient . Heartily recommend others give it a try as a daily driver…

Interesting, I went the other way about 7 years ago - switched from fish to zsh (initially with oh-my-zsh). The interactive experience was similar enough on both shells, and the performance was great on fish and okay-ish on zsh, but two things won me over: 1. With zsh, I can copy-paste some bash snippet and in 99% of cases it will just work. Aside of copy-pasting from StackExchange, I also know a lot of bash syntax b…

I think that oilshell is aimed at people like you. I’ve never used it, but their website does make some interesting points about how a shell ought to work and how this could be compatible with bash.

Re: Fish 4.0: The Fish of Theseus

#57

Post by preisschild »

I would love to use fish, but it seems there really isnt a oh-my-zsh equivalent.

I dont even need the OMZ prompt (i use starship for that), but the aliases from the kubectl and git plugins are just so great to have if you use kubectl and git often.

Other plugins (like colored-man-pages, fzf-tab and syntax-highlighting) are also nice.

Is there something like that for fish?

Oh-my-fish has some of those features, but it seems to be abandoned.

Re: Fish 4.0: The Fish of Theseus

#58

Post by 3eb7988a1663 »

bloppe wrote: post #48
freedomben wrote: post #12

> The one platform we care about a bit that it does not currently seem to have enough support for is Cygwin, which is sad, but we have to make a cut somewhere. > We’re also losing Cygwin as a supported platform for the time being, because there is no Rust target for Cygwin and so no way to build binaries targeting it. We hope that this situation changes in future, but we had also hoped it would improve during the alm…

genuinely curious: with so much love for cygwin, why not just run Linux? possibly with a dual boot?

Corporate jobs are nearly always on Windows machines. Cygwin+GitBash can usually sneak past the gate without raising too many eyebrows. WSL is still voodoo dark mark that can require conversations to get IT to allow.

Re: Fish 4.0: The Fish of Theseus

#60

Post by ComputerGuru »

preisschild wrote: post #57

I would love to use fish, but it seems there really isnt a oh-my-zsh equivalent. I dont even need the OMZ prompt (i use starship for that), but the aliases from the kubectl and git plugins are just so great to have if you use kubectl and git often. Other plugins (like colored-man-pages, fzf-tab and syntax-highlighting) are also nice. Is there something like that for fish? Oh-my-fish has some of those features, but it…

Integration with 3rd party scripts and tools is often a single line in your config.fish, something like `foo --init-fish | source` or better yet, `command -q foo && foo --init-fish | source`

We don't recommend oh-my-fish for various reasons, but I guess what's really missing is just a gallery.

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