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I automated my job application process

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Re: I automated my job application process

#441

Post by ikiris »

koliber wrote: post #383
cj wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also switched to only on-site interviews. My initial technical screenings are still done remotely. Pro tip for anyone hiring engineers for remote positions: Tell the applicant that there “might be” an in person technical assessment, even if you know the process will be 100% remote. The amount of fake candidates at the moment is insane. The only thing that makes fake candidates self-select out is knowing there’s t…

I do technical hiring for remote senior Java roles. I have not noticed a fake applicant problem. Can you share more about it? I see plenty of people with poor technical skills claiming to be senior. They seem to be real enough though.

In fairness, its probably a lot harder to tell llm java code from human made java code.

Re: I automated my job application process

#444

Post by salomon812 »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #408
la64710 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly you can do as a HM to make the life of a job seeker easy? I dare say nothing except to just make the quality of response better. Even after six rounds of interviews candidates who are not selected get not a single positive feedback and is treated like scrap with a soulless rejection. Beleive me as a job applicant I have zero sympathy for the corporates that hire me and I will use every thing at my dispos…

I agree with your sentiment. I am curious how this person will fare when they return to the job hunt. Then, they will see how adversarial the process has become, even for highly qualified candidates. Suddenly, AI looks like a good idea to game some of the process.

Since I think I'm the person you're referencing, I really do want to give good feedback, but experience has shown it's really perilous (discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42533899)

And I know how adversarial the process has become. I have friends looking for jobs plus I try to get to know my candidates. And I have my recent hires and their stories.

I want to make it a better process but I'm so burnt out figuring out how to make it better. Some people talk about professional 3rd party recruiters but I've been burned by those as well. When it comes to dating and hiring, both can be pretty brutal.

Re: I automated my job application process

#445

Post by bdangubic »

dennis_jeeves2 wrote: post #440
hibikir wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's not even enough: A few weeks ago I had to interview someone who had what appeared to be a realistic profile. Everything that came out of their mouth was from chatGPT It was suspicious, but the ruse became clear when they shared the wrong screen, so we could see his prompt, and how everything we said was being read in. At this point every remote internet checklist has to include checks for humanity, because…

>Everything that came out of their mouth was from chatGPT It was suspicious, but the ruse became clear when they shared the wrong screen, so we could see his prompt, and how everything we said was being read in. Wouldn't you notice a lag between your question and the candidate's answer if the candidate had to type your question into chatGPT?Or does the candidate use some software/tool with transmits your question to…

there is no lag, voice to text to chatgpt then read the answer

Re: I automated my job application process

#446

Post by dennis_jeeves2 »

bdangubic wrote: post #445
dennis_jeeves2 wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Everything that came out of their mouth was from chatGPT It was suspicious, but the ruse became clear when they shared the wrong screen, so we could see his prompt, and how everything we said was being read in. Wouldn't you notice a lag between your question and the candidate's answer if the candidate had to type your question into chatGPT?Or does the candidate use some software/tool with transmits your question to…

there is no lag, voice to text to chatgpt then read the answer

Thank you. (Haven't been up to date with the hype.)

Re: I automated my job application process

#447

Post by aperrien »

belinder wrote: post #418
roenxi wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I didn't know better I'd think this was satire. As far as I can tell the advocacy is for either companies to be empowered to sue people who apply to work with them (seems like madness) or to set up a situation where the government enforcement arm pro-actively goes out and harasses unemployed job seekers. Either way that sounds like a recipe for disaster for unemployed persons.

AI has made hiring especially in technical industry an absolute shit show. I agree with parent comment that ideally government could do something about it but agree with you on how would you even do that. Maybe if they required all the job board companies like indeed and glassdoor and LinkedIn to properly vet candidates else those companies would be fined, but it's hard to imagine a solution that doesn't also hurt un…

And then you run into problems on the corporate side: fake job listings to build up resume databases for comparison shopping of applicants. Regulations in this area should have to cut both ways.

Re: I automated my job application process

#448

Post by margalabargala »

fijiaarone wrote: post #404
bb88 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Github copilot still sucks for writing complex code (algorithms or database queries, e.g.). Or trying to do unpopular things (like custom electronics using particular micros and driver chips). For unit tests, it's a godsend. Particularly if you write one unit test, and then it can write another in the style you wrote.

LLMs can’t write unit tests. They can’t even tell what you intend. If your code is already correct, you don’t need the unit test, if it’s not, the LLM can’t write the unit test. If you thing an LLM can write tests for you, you can be replaced by an LLM.

> If your code is already correct, you don’t need the unit test.

I don't know where you work where code is written once and is never changed again, but enjoy it while it lasts...

Re: I automated my job application process

#449

Post by jjav »

salomon812 wrote: post #214
jjav wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so is firing people (at least in United States it is.) There's probably some country somewhere where it is easier to fire people than the US, but not sure where would that be. There are zero requirements to fire people in the US. No reason needed, no notice, no compensation, nothing. Most (if not all) other countries have varying levels of requirements, notice and compensation required to fire someone. In the US, n…

There's a difference between layoffs and firing. To fire an individual, the company must have documentation to ensure it's not a wrongful termination. Ironically, it's easier to lay-off 100 people because all you need to do is demonstrate their division's project is cancelled. And that documentation takes time as a manager, which costs money. But I admit not knowing completely because I haven't had to fire anyone yet…

> To fire an individual, the company must have documentation to ensure it's not a wrongful termination.

Not in the US. All you must do is tell them they're gone, walk them out the door and that's that. You must pay them any worked days not yet paid but that's all.

Company HR departments sometimes establish more elaborate procedures for firing, but none of that is required by law, it's just internal company process.

Re: I automated my job application process

#450

Post by margalabargala »

XenophileJKO wrote: post #414
margalabargala wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, not using LLMs might be a red flag. I wouldn't want a dev that is not open to this technology... The person you're replying to is a senior, not junior candidate. For junior devs who are still learning, LLMs are a great force multiplier that help them understand code faster and integrate new things. For senior devs, LLMs are a maybe-optional tool that might save a couple hours per week, on a good week. I would…

I kind of feel like it is the inverse in many ways. As an experienced engineer, I know how to describe what I want which is 90% of getting the right implementation. Secondly, because I know what I want and how it should work, I tend to know it when I see it. Often it only takes a nudge to get to a solution similar to what I already would have done. Usually it is just a quick comment like: "Do it in a functional style…

I'm not making numbers up here; the controlled studies that have been done agree with me.

See here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4945566

Worse/less experienced developers see a much greater increase in output, and better and more experienced developers see much less improvement. AI are great at generating junior level work en masse, but their output generally is not up to quality and functionality standards at a more senior level. This is both what I've personally observed and what my peers have said as well.

Out of curiosity, which LLM code tool do you use?

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