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Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

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Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#161

Post by sdenton4 »

pembrook wrote: post #152
yndoendo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would travel more around the USA if we had a decedent high-speed rail system. Spent too much time flying, red-eyes, and driving for work, 7-12+ hours one way, and hate those modes of transportation. They may get you from point A to B but your time is wasted along with the enjoyment of the trip. Unfortunately the Oil industry won over the politicians in the USA with donations, legal bribes, and they prevent the buil…

This is a false conspiracy narrative that belongs on Reddit in the r/fuckcars filter bubble. Sure, the automotive industry stood to benefit from the decline of rail travel in the US. But they didn’t really need to do anything for that to happen on its own. Reality is far less interesting than that. Turns out when you have tons of fertile land, even pre-industrialization your population tends to spread out a bit (the…

Here's the source. There were actual-court cases which found that oil and car manufacturers conspired to monopolize and convert local public transit to buses from rail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...

"Between 1938 and 1950, National City Lines and its subsidiaries, American City Lines and Pacific City Lines—with investment from GM, Firestone Tire, Standard Oil of California (through a subsidiary), Federal Engineering, Phillips Petroleum, and Mack Trucks—gained control of additional transit systems in about 25 cities.[a] Systems included St. Louis, Baltimore, Los Angeles, and Oakland. NCL often converted streetcars to bus operations in that period, although electric traction was preserved or expanded in some locations. Other systems, such as San Diego's, were converted by outgrowths of the City Lines. Most of the companies involved were convicted in 1949 of conspiracy to monopolize interstate commerce in the sale of buses, fuel, and supplies to NCL subsidiaries, but were acquitted of conspiring to monopolize the transit industry."

This history also plays a large role in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit," as a bit of fun bonus lore...

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#163

Post by likeabatterycar »

thatcat wrote: post #132
likeabatterycar wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide sources for the Big Oil conspiracy you cite? Because nationwide high speed rail isn't as easy - or practical - as you think. California hadn't been able to build a train a fraction of that distance without delays and squandering massive amounts of money. The PNW has been unable to build it from Portland to Vancouver. The US is many times larger than any European country or Japan. There are US states s…

China, Russia, and India have high speed rail. Can you cite the reasons that these large countries are capable of building high speed rail while the US is not? Where is the recent innovation in US air travel? It has gotten considerably worse over the last 30 years. Supersonic passenger flights stopped in 2003 around the same time that TSA added hours to every flight.

[flagged]

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#164

Post by donalhunt »

caseyy wrote: post #158
Beijinger wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I’d arrive in a new city each morning feeling refreshed because of the train’s sleeping accommodations." Aeh, where were you travelling? Many countries did not have sleeper trains. Don't get me wrong. I did the same, travelling at night in trains, and it saved me a night in a hotel. But I did not arrive well rested, I arrived train wrecked.

I thought the same as I was reading the comment you're responding to. Arriving rested after public transport? Get a load of that guy :) Not sure how anyone does that, but of course it would be nice to learn this dark magic.

First class sleeper cabins would count. Definitely not equivalent to a hotel room but better than a couchette.

The definitely ran between Germany and the Netherlands in the 00s because I took at least one trip that way.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#165

Post by bialpio »

caseyy wrote: post #158
Beijinger wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I’d arrive in a new city each morning feeling refreshed because of the train’s sleeping accommodations." Aeh, where were you travelling? Many countries did not have sleeper trains. Don't get me wrong. I did the same, travelling at night in trains, and it saved me a night in a hotel. But I did not arrive well rested, I arrived train wrecked.

I thought the same as I was reading the comment you're responding to. Arriving rested after public transport? Get a load of that guy :) Not sure how anyone does that, but of course it would be nice to learn this dark magic.

"sleeper train" is the key here. Another keyword to search for is "couchette", I think that's how it's called in some places. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couchette_car and the map.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#166

Post by tpm »

riedel wrote: post #133
likeabatterycar wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There used to be a similar service between Toronto and Montreal (both directions), where the train would pause for several hours midway so passengers would arrive at around 7:30 a.m. well-rested. That trip is 1h 15m by air with 30 flights a day each way. That train doesn't exist anymore because it's impractical and people's time is valuable. We stopped taking Conestoga wagons from New York to California for the sam…

There is also flights in Europe that are faster. I recently traveled from Stuttgart to Vienna via night train. It was even more expensive. But this is not the point. Time sleeping in a night train is not lost. Also typically getting to the airport and from the airport into the city takes time. Same for airport security. And if there is enough wind that night one might even travel CO2 emission free.

Stuttgart to Vienna should take much less than the current 6+ hours, but the train network is heavily underinvested compared to alternatives.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#167

Post by likeabatterycar »

thatcat wrote: post #153
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

A ton of new destinations? wow what an amazing improvement! Is it possible that was just inevitable network effect and had nothing to do with intentional investments in R/D? It's almost as if the development of technology and politics are interrelated. Half the cost of building US airports were subsidized by the government when they added them. Path of development and real estate prices are related to accessibility.…

> A ton of new destinations? wow what an amazing improvement! Is it possible that was just inevitable network effect and had nothing to do with intentional investments in R/D?

No, not possible at all.

Intentional investments in R&D led to more fuel-efficient and long-range aircraft technology such as the B787 and A350 which allowed new point-to-point routes between cities that were never before possible, abandoning the hub-and-spoke model of the past.

Like Auckland-NYC nonstop.

Imagine if they had to build rails between those two.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#168

Post by [deleted] »

Beijinger wrote: post #139
tzury wrote: post #80

About 20 years ago, I visited most of Europe’s major cities over the course of a two-month trip, traveling primarily by night train. Each overnight ride saved me the cost of a hostel or guesthouse, and I’d arrive in a new city each morning feeling refreshed because of the train’s sleeping accommodations. There used to be a similar service between Toronto and Montreal (both directions), where the train would pause for…

"I’d arrive in a new city each morning feeling refreshed because of the train’s sleeping accommodations." Aeh, where were you travelling? Many countries did not have sleeper trains. Don't get me wrong. I did the same, travelling at night in trains, and it saved me a night in a hotel. But I did not arrive well rested, I arrived train wrecked.

[deleted]

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#169

Post by lagadu »

caseyy wrote: post #158
Beijinger wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I’d arrive in a new city each morning feeling refreshed because of the train’s sleeping accommodations." Aeh, where were you travelling? Many countries did not have sleeper trains. Don't get me wrong. I did the same, travelling at night in trains, and it saved me a night in a hotel. But I did not arrive well rested, I arrived train wrecked.

I thought the same as I was reading the comment you're responding to. Arriving rested after public transport? Get a load of that guy :) Not sure how anyone does that, but of course it would be nice to learn this dark magic.

These are trains with sleeping cabins and actual beds you sleep in. It's better than many hostels.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#170

Post by Beijinger »

bialpio wrote: post #165
caseyy wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the same as I was reading the comment you're responding to. Arriving rested after public transport? Get a load of that guy :) Not sure how anyone does that, but of course it would be nice to learn this dark magic.

"sleeper train" is the key here. Another keyword to search for is "couchette", I think that's how it's called in some places. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couchette_car and the map.

Sleeper train can be a great experience. Unfortunately, this was not an option when I was young either due to pricing or due to availability. At least in Europe with the InterRail ticket.
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